Timber Framers Guild Forums General General Forum Questions costs

I am trying to get a handle on a cost comparison (an estimate... as we all know that the finishing touches can dramatically increase the price)Is a timber frame equal in cost to log home? Is timber frame 25% more than stick frame? Using the basis that a stick frame house is at least $ 100.00 a square foot, what would a 2500 sq foot timber frame would cost? +$312,000.00 Canadian funds?

Hi Tanya,

I am no expert in this matter but am building my own timberframe home and to be sure it is more expensive than traditional stick framing. Pricing is so variable in different areas.
I have seen the same numbers thrown around when I was planning my home. We are now getting ready to finish the enclosure in the next month so we are pretty far along. My advice would be to get a price from a local builder with his specifications for a stick built home. Then take that and talk to a timberframer to get a price for the frame part of it. Of course you can cut out some costs from the stick built home in the process. I am an owner builder so my home will be comparable to a stick built when I am done because I am saving on contractor costs and other labor costs which can be expensive. I have had to do a lot of extra work in the process to do price estimates, actual work on the project as well as find appropriate subcontractors etc. We have a large family which has helped a lot, (i.e. inexpensive labor) to reduce our costs. Hope this helps.

Haz

When I shopped around, I was quoted about $25 to $35 per square foot to (timber) frame a 4000 square foot house. Actually, the quotes were $15 to $25 per square foot if I supplied the timbers. These are US prices, about 2 years ago, in the midwest, for an oak frame, and a hammer beam great room.

Of course, then you need to add in the cost of the SIPs _and_ framing the windows and doors within the SIPs (if you go that route). I think I was quoted $15 to $20 per square foot for the SIP as a package with wiring chases and door/window frames precut.

My wild guess would be that a timberframe will cost $20 (low estimate) to $50 (on the high side) per square foot more than a stick built home. Factor in the cost of adding crown molding and extra insulation to the stick framed house to make it as nicely finished as the timber framed house and the gap closes.

FWIW, if you're framing the house yourself, I would think framing a timber frame house _yourself_ (cutting the notches and everything) would take at least 10 times longer than framing a stick house. I have watched small crews (2 people?) start and finish stick framed houses while I was still just notching my timbers. IMHO, the labor, not the materials is what makes a timberframe house more expensive.

my house project - 50% complete?

Thomas,

Nice pictures on your website. My Doug Fir frame went up at the end of November and then the snow came so we are slowly stacking blocks when we get warm days. We are using ICF walls on our frame instead of SIPS. I did not cut my own frame but did help to raise the frame which was a great week. I was hoping to do the whole project myself but just couldn't make time for it and we were in somewhat of a hurry to get the frame done. I am planning on doing much of the rest of the project once the frame is enclosed. Hope you have a lot of fun with your project.

Haz

Has anyone figured out what the costs are when done by the owner/builder? I would assume that sweat equity has a value that can be quanified by someone that has done a cost analysis of a self built project.

Has anyone figured out what the costs are when done by the owner/builder? I would assume that sweat equity has a value that can be quantified by someone that has done a cost analysis of a self built project.

HAZ, would you explain what ICF walls are? I am 1-2 years out from building my dream house and shop. I am looking for any info. I can get on the most energy efficent methods of building. I plan on setting aside my business for the time period of constructing my house. I had estimated to me from a timberframe company that would prefer to remain anonomous, a "turn-key" cost range of $125.00 - $175.00 per sq. ft. having the whole project contracted out. It's my hope that I can have my dream house in a timberframe by cutting and joining myself for half that but I admit that to this point I haven't aquired enough sub costs to know for sure. I am an experienced carpenter and cabinetmaker by trade. I have thousands of board feet of homesawn lumber as well as reclaimed lumber I intend to mill myself for the house. What I don't have are the timbers. I have done a little framing so far and am slowly aquiring the machines to do it. I just need to get into a few more workshops to get more hands on experience. No question it takes longer to cut and join a frame than to stick build but maybe not 10 times longer, I would guess 4-5 times. But ofcoarse that too depends on the equipment you have to work with.

Thomas, what do you use for moving your timbers on sight to stage them for cutting? Forklift, crane, your shoulder,LOL? This is one aspect of the process I find difficult to cost in. Should I buy a used forklift or something for handling timbers since I maybe working alone alot of the time then plan on selling it when the house is done? The same goes for the specialty machines for framing. I have a chain mortiser already but not a large circular saw or 12" hand plane. All these special tools add up to alot of money just to get ready to build.

HAZ,

ICF for your walls - sounds like a good idea - I never thought of that. I am not sold on SIPs, and I haven't ordered them yet, but it looks like that's the path I'm going down (although I hate OSB). As for raising the frame vs. cutting it, you surely were involved in the most rewarding part!

RWW,

Without a doubt, the handiest and most reliable piece of heavy equipment that I own is a Caterpillar extenda-hoe backhoe I bought it with 2500 hours on the clock at a foreclosure auction for $28,000. I have spent less than $1000 maintaining it and have put over 1000 hours on it. I hope to sell it for not much loss in a few years. We have joked that it is the most important timberframing tool that I own. I have used it to drag logs out of the woods, to carry logs to the saw mill, to dig my basement, to build 3 ponds, to carry gravel from the creek to my road, to move liquid concrete, to move cinderblocks, to raise a friend's timberframe cabin, and most importantly to move those heavy beams!!! (I also used a bull dozer to help with some of those things, but I could have gotten by with only the backhoe.)

The first thing I bought to go with the back hoe was a set of forks that hook on and off of the bucket. I would recommend a backhoe (or large 4wd tractor with bucket) with a set of forks instead of a forklift. Both are more versatile than the forklift, will go through mud better, and are more easily sold when the job is done. I wouldn't recommend buying a backhoe or tractor with more than 4000 hours on the clock though - you're more likely to get burned on the deal and will spend too much time fixing it. (no part of the timber frame experience should include bathing in hydraulic fluid - sadly that has been part of my dozer/logging experience - don't buy a bull dozer! rent it if you need it!) Best thing would be if you have a neighbor that will rent you his tractor with loader. A much cheaper way out would be to get a run-of-the-mill tractor with a boom pole, or a bale mover on the back (forks normally used for moving large round bales of hay). Good used tractors (without a loader) reach the bottom of the depreciation scale at about $5,000 and hover there. (double that # if it has a nice loader setup on it) Bigger tractors are cheaper than smaller tractors once they get over 20 years old.

As for speciality timberframing tools... you already have the most useful one. The chain mortiser is by far the most useful of the lot. The 16" saw and planer are "nice to haves", not "need to haves". In fact, I was well into the project before I broke down and bought the 16" saw. (and a little further into the project when I bought the left hand worm drive saw). The planer is way overpriced for what it is ($1600!!! plus $30 for every set of so-called "disposable" blades). But my wife wanted smooth beams, and I learned in the timber framing workshop that layout is vastly simplified if you have timbers already the exact size you need. We sawed ours 1/8" over and planed them to size. (started sawing them to 1/4" over though once we realized the timbers were shrinking as they sat there for 6 months waiting to be notched!) Yes, there are proper layout methods (using reference faces - very well described in Sobon's books) that let you use any odd sized timbers you want, but given the transient nature of the help I could enlist (friends, neighbors, and family), I wanted the simplest methods of layout possible. Planing them to the exact size has worked for me.

Hope this helps. I just did a book review - maybe in a few weeks, I can do a tool review and equipment review on my blog.

-Thomas

my timberframe web page

My wife and I built our 1400 sq ft timber frame home for less than $61 a sq ft. We did everything except the rough in plumbing and most of the HVAC installation. We have solid surface countertops, a built in sauna, corner jacuzzi tub, slate floors in our bathroom and foyer, heart pine floors upstairs and part of downstairs, interior walls and ceilings are wood, no drywall anywhere. We have a gas fireplace with cultured stone, we used sips on the walls and roof. We could of reduced the costs even more by using timbers and boards that I cut on my sawmill but I had the timbers cut and bought dried boards to speed things up. It took us over 4 years working on it in my spare time. We also have a very unique set of spiral stairs that are made from chunks of sassafras stacked on top of each other in a spiral. They won first place in the interior Northeast region
Wood-Mizer personal best contest.

Is Tanya asking for turn key costs? I'll assume so and throw out a couple impressions I have. Certainly "It depends" is the standard answer?

Real tough to build for $100/sqft these days - $125-150 more reasonable for a "good" house. Building for less requires wholesale purchasing and/or lots of donated labor (hence $61).
Timber frame probably adds 25%, but with good early design and certain options it can be a lot less than that. Custom log is even more, log kit is less. Log is an apples-to-oranges comparison since they won't meet energy standards among other problems.

I estimate 60% of final cost is "shell" (including frame & panels) and can't be moved much. The remainder is inside and where budgets are made or blown. Kitchen or flooring or tile or stone is what raises the final number more than anything else.

I maintain anyone can have a timber frame if they really want one. Trade off some space requirement or disposable trim and you can do it. Invest in design to save money later. A big topic, sorry to ramble on.