Timber Framers Guild Forums General General Forum Questions Green Timber

I've read a couple of different opinions about using Green Timber. I would like to hear the opinion of the folks on this list. Should you season your timbers or can/should they be used green?

Thanks, in advance.

Dan

What kind of wood, Dan?

Oops!! Eastern White Pine.

Dan

Well, as usual, the answer is not black and white.

In general, if you carve a frame from dry timber, your joinery will remain as tight as the day you raised it, as it should be done moving. But it's usually easier (sometimes much easier) to carve green timber, and drying can be impractical, so you have to weigh the one against the other. The species of wood can greatly influence the decision.

I work primarily in white pine, and I've always worked it (relatively) green. This is due primarily to the fact that as a professional, I prefer not to tie up a lot of money in inventory waiting for it to dry. I do have the option of buying dried timber, but the added cost doesn't seem justified. That's my opinion only.

White pine works very well when green, and is well behaved as it dries. By well behaved, I mean that it does not shrink drastically, in contrast to oak or douglas fir. It also tends not to bow or twist very much, in contrast to, say, red pine. That said, dried white pine is not nearly as difficult to work as dried doug fir.

If your are air drying it yourself, then you will probably still get some checking, and unless you wait many years, it will continue to shrink some after you cut it.

Not an exact answer, but hopefully worth the $.02 I contributed to your project :-) Good luck! CB.

CB,

Thanks for the opinion! We are going to harvest the pine from the property and it will be green when I start the joinery. I've done some checking around and no one has anything on hand so if I buy versus harvest, I'll end up wasting money.
This is our first try at building a timberframe so I want to make the best choices possible.

Thanks again for the info.

Dan

Dan:
I'm curious to hear what you've read about using green timbers.
I thought it was the industry standard to use green timbers, due to the length of time and or cost to dry them.
Who's books have you been reading that offer different options?
Jim Rogers

Jim,

Some of the info is from the web. The books I have are Ted Benson's as well as Steve Chappell. Both Ted and Steve say about the same thing Steve just adds a little more detail saying something to the effect that it would be better to use dry timber over green (better joinery due to no shrinkage) BUT it's harder to work and the Time/cost to use dry versus green are just not feesible.
I found a couple websites (don't ask me which ones. I found them from links and/or web searches) that recommend using "Seasoned" timber.

The one thing I keep in mind is "consider the source". The internet is full of opinions as well as misinformation. Thus....the reason I posted the question. I wanted to get the opinion of those involved in Timberframing as a profession and or passion.

Thanks again for responding.

Dan

Dan:
Well, I guess then it all depends on your definition of "Seasoned".
My on board computer dictionary says under seasoned >verb 3. keep (wood) so as to dry it for use as timber. 4(seasoned) accustomed to particular conditions.
Many years ago when I was in the firewood business we considered wood "seasoned" if it had been cut and split for at least three months, as that was the length of a "season".
Working timbers that dry at the rate of 1" in thickness per year after being milled for three months (a season) would or could be considered working the timber "green".
It's my opinion, that three month old timbers are still green. Only wood that has dried to the core would I consider dry.
Working timbers whether green or "seasoned" one has to anticipate shrinkage, and therefore compensate for it. This is done by hollowing out some of the joinery.
Jack Sobon's book, Build a Classic Timber Frame House shows with pictures how to hollow out a joint in order to compensate for shrinkage. If you don't have this one on your library shelf you could consider getting a copy.
Good luck with your project.
Jim Rogers

Thanks Jim.

Nope...I don't have that book on the shelf.

Benson and Chappell stipulate cutting mortises deeper to account for shrinkage. This along with shimming dovetails will help to maintain the tightness in the joinery as the wood dries.(sounds reasonable to me.)

I would be inclined to agree with you concerning "Seasoned" wood. (dry to the core)
My purpose for asking the original question was to get feedback from everyone about how long I must "season" the wood before laying out and cutting the joinery.

Thanks again.
Dan

i would add that wood of similar dryness should be used together and avoid using wood of radically different dryness (avoid that nice old barn beam tenoned into that fresh pine post)
-Mark.