I decided to try a first step toward more complicated woodwork. Rather than just making butt joints (for a shelf that will hold a lid to a compost pit) I tried to make lap joints, using a handsaw. Boy was it hard. I mean, every instance is sloppy. Wow. It really gives an appreciation of the complex joints I see on the site and the book I bought (Sobon). It's hard to believe that I could ever do the precision sawing to make, e.g., twinned mortise and tenon joints, or what have you. Very hard work. Maybe my handsaw is now good, I bought it at Home Depot, but I think rather I am to blame. If practice makes perfect, I'll need about a century.

Maybe this is my problem:

I need a saw like these.

I am using a brute-force saw to try to make precision cuts. These little saws are the appropriate ones perhaps.

Sorry, just a beginner here.

With Japanese saws, do you get what you pay for? Is < $100 acceptable for a set of three, or should I pay more than that for just one?

Keep right on going, Eye...

That's how the skills will be aquired. Good tools help, but they won't make you a master by themselves. It takes many projects where you can learn about techniques AND wood, as well as tools. With practice it all comes together.

Woodworking is my favorite hobby, and something I did professionally for a time... I'd suggest a book on jigs and fixtures to help you approach cuts/joinery. Many of these are geared toward power tools, but there are tricks useful to all woodworking and carpentry.

Did you try to use a straight-edge to guide your handsaw on those lap joints? A good piece of hardwood clamped across the piece won't mar you saw... try subsituting a knife instead of a pencil for layout. It's thinner (more accurate) and will provide a small "kerf" to start your saw. And try and cut multiple pieces at once...

For example: clamp 2 of those pieces side-by-side on a bench and clamp another piece of hardwood across as a straightedge, then use a knife to start the cut... you can do pretty good w/ that old Home Depot saw.

Most processes are helped w/ an aid of some kind-- even a task as simple as drilling a hole... a common piece of masking tape on a drill bit for a depth gauge helps, for example.

These are tricks we all use.

But keep at it... and read! Get a magazine subscription... don't spend money on those japanese saws just yet. Buy some wood and get some books instead.

Just keep at it...

I like the Ryoba saws, I have a 300mm. My favorite "traditional" saw is the Stanley Sharptooth saw. It has the same pattern teeth as a japanese saw, but in a traditional push format. Practice practice. You'll get better with every cut.


Dave

Thanks for the encouragement!

I second the Stanley Shark saw. I have always called it the Shark saw due to its cover. I found a 8tpi once, typically I look for the 8tpi but only now find 9tpi's. I wonder why they make a 12tpi? The stores stock them. Fine, small work such as e l w is working on. For timbers I like fewer teeth. I keep both the short one and a longer one. I switch back and forth from the hard teeth and the soft teeth. I tried sharpening one once but found I didn't want to spend that much time filing with a looking glass. I do file my favorite the old Docking saw at 5-6tpi.

One of the things that I Really like about the Stanley is the finger nail clipper hole on the end, it leaves the finger a bit rough but I don't believe Stanley cares. I believe some study group came up with the idea, part of the ergonomics.... "Oh, the carpenter can hang it on a nail, lets make the hole a bit larger". It can also work as a hanger, I suppose. If you can't tell, that hole on the end really bugs me.
Tim

One of my timber framing teachers likes and suggests that a good overall hand saw is the Stanley 12 point saw. We have a couple here available for someone who won't be able to find one. And I take them with me when I go on a tool selling trip, for the timber framer who just doesn't have a good hand saw....

Jim Rogers

Have you started to learn timberframe techniques? Before I got into it almost 2 years ago now, I didn't know how to use a chisel, or a saw(properly), how to sharpen tools, the fundamental philosophies on how to use these tools. You will be amazed at the precision you can get from hand tools like a chisel, which in the timberframing world is used like plane as well. Layout techniques, like knife scoring mentioned is crutial to precision. You can learn it. It's not that hard once you get a good understanding and some practice. You'll find that you'll use the timberframing techniques in other areas of woodworking as well. Recently I had to repair the back door frame of the farmhouse. The lower portion near the outside had some rot in the pine. I used timberframe skills to fashion a jigsaw puzzle looking piece of oak to splice in (get painted over anyway), and I used my chisel to adjust the fit to get a really nice tight fit. I recommend to all newbies to take one of the good timberframe workshops out there and you will learn alot not just for timberframing but woodworking in general. This board is another excellent source of info.

Thank you for your informative posts.

I was wondering something. When I shopped for a saw at Home Depot, I couldn't find a ripcut-only, nor a crosscut-only, saw. They had only this Stanley 26" 11TPI 12point "fine finish" "multi-purpose" saw. I've been using it on treated lumber for outdoors. Is that normal now? I always thought people selected the saw for the direction of cut.

Thanks for all your suggestions!

Eye,
Nice name by the way! Hope it grows on ya!

I've only come across rip saws cheap on the yard sale tables,, fortunatly, the local guy who sharpens our stuff is happy to sharpen and kerf, cheap. Lee valley sells rip saws for a hundred bucks or so. I prefer a toothy japanese rip saw, but truth be known,, I do mostly bread boarding with my circular saw, and clean up with a good chisel.
You can't go wrong with a good hard point saw. They aren't sharpenable,, but for 20 bucks they stay good for a long time!

i heard a rumor about a fellow in bc who was distributing aggressive japanese saws suitable for timber framing. anyone have any leads on this or something like that? thanks!11

it's hewing season in northern canada! time to start building

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=898

This is the most aggressive Japanese hand saw I've used. It will cut an 8x8 in no time.

I use the big z saws from

http://www.tashirohardware.com/Site/Home.html

Good prices on that site!

thanks for the tips! i was looking at the tashiro source (from another thread here actually) but again had heard of a source in BC. ???

first whack of the axe
the tree shivers gently, soft
branch tips touch the snow

nice verse, toivo.



snow recedes by day
deft, the woodcutter's axe thuds
dragon beam rising