Timber Framers Guild Forums General Discussion Forestry Topics Picking Trees

Its a hot weekend.
Walking through this hell on earth called the mid-state. It's South Carolina's equivalent to their friends to the North's "Piedmont".
Lots of Longleaf. Pine everyhwhere. I don't think I should consider the one's whose bark is spiraling. "You stand straight", I say, "How do you do?". Got to find some good trees..

I think a lot of us around here think this is the better approach to building a frame. I have looked at many a tree, but I am sure ya'll have some good observations on getting the right tree.

Those of you; could you please share, your walk through observations. You know who you are.

This is my upper to 500 something post, and this should have been one of the first ten. It all comes full circle.

I have posted regularly on here for sometime. Sometimes comprehensively, sometimes foolishly. There of those of you out there who are lucky enough to start the whole process with a tree in sight. Tell me your test for them. When I have that I opportunity to timber-frame I want to be ready.

In Vino es Veritas

Use the crap first if possible, look for standing dead wood that is still in good shape, look for trees that are good wood with little future due to competition, or cut out trees that you would rather not have in your bush.
Try to preserve the best trees to act as seed trees for the future.
If you are cutting down some good stuff, try to be organized so that the wood is not weakened by laying around too long in the weather.
Trees that tend to move a lot after being squared can still be used successfully if they are sawn oversize, then resawn after curing for some time.

The one whose bark is spiraling should be one of the first to be cut, maybe not for big timbers but braces or plank or board that can be piled under some weight to season and stabilize...

keep on posting Mr mo!

Hi Mark,

I might ask you to reconsider your last advice re spiral trees.

In general where spiral grain is encountered then the timbers cut from this type of tree should not be cut into small or thin pieces like braces since the prospect of failure due to slope of grain is high and also when cut into boards these will likely propellor and not lie flat unless recut and planed when bone dry.

There are some applications where spiral trees would be the preferred choice e.g. as in mill drive shafts. Spiral grain tends to dry with a multitide of cracks and provided the direction of rotation (torsional twist) tends to close up these cracks then this will perform much better in service than a parallel grain centre heart timber that exhibits one or two very large drying shakes.

We have discussed spiral grain at length elsewhere in the forums where reports have been received of it being frequently encountered in buildings (posts). I would certainly recommend avoiding this growth characteristic for sills and wall plates in framed structures.

Regards

Ken Hume

The worst offender of spiral grain I see is spruce. If it is real bad I will put it into boards and move on. I do agree with Marks thinning suggestions, leaving the nice stuff for when really needed. You can do a lot with the cull trees, heart rot is an area I struggle with, it yields very low quality material. So sometimes it is advisable to leave it standing as it has added benefits to the local environment, seed and bug life. Know what your stand holds and use it when needed for a certain task.

Tim

mo,

Are you asking about how to select trees to remove in order to improve the stand or how to choose the trees that will yield the best timbers?

i wonder about this too. my sawyer and woodlot manager is adamant about harvesting only windfall and standing dead timber. some really nice trees do come down on their own. i just finished with a timber today from a white pine that came down in a big storm here in 2006. part of the same project is cedar that this fellow sawed from standing dead cedar, drowned in a beaver swamp. also very nice timber. it's interesting to think that the timber harvested will result in both the work you're about to do and the quality of the forest left standing.

that said, there's a massive healthy tamarack tree on the property here that would make perfect sill logs. it sounds solid when hit with the back of the axe. but i'll cut down the dead spruce next to it first. it's a lot to take a living thing into one's responsibility. maybe if i were a better framer... but as is, the tree stands up taller and more sure on its than what i'd be making- check it out how tall they are!

this is right on- some trees sound solid in the heart-

cutting trees for shingle-making

Hey guys,

Just was able to get back on here. Good stuff from you all! Thanks!

Gabel, that is a tough question. Its hard to pick the priority...but if I was going too... I would be looking for the best trees for timber to build with. Is there a way to allow both to happen?

Hi Mo & Gabel,

I think that selecting poor quality stems for use in timber framing will in general result in more problems than its worth.

I have just started a project in Oxfordshire with the Oxfordshire Woodland Group and the Oxfordshire Buildings Record to examine old buldings with a view to producing a factual record of the typical sizes, species, quality and conversion methods employed in the construction of vernacular timber framed buildings. I want to be able to determine typically how woodlands were managed in medieval times when the demands placed on the woodland were probably much higher than today.

The answer to your question might lie more in answering the general question "how long have you got?". My own woodlot has 60 year old Dougls Fir growing in it and my intention is to start selectively culling these trees and encourage their replacement by broadleaf oak, ash, cherry, elm etc but this of necessity will be a slow process in order to help prevent blow down of the remaining trees. Adopting a "Continuous Cover Forestry" policy will probably provide a reasonable balance between addressing woodland management issues and timber framing requirements. I have started this process in a small way but frankly will look more to my son to implement this plan over his lifetime and beyond.

Sometimes I cycle past old "stored coppice" woodlands and marvel at the "fit for purpose" timber quality that this type of woodland is capable of producing on a regular basis but these woodlots no longer appear to be worked traditionally and so are reverting to high forest with much larger stem sizes than needed for timber framing.

This is a very complex topic to address within a few short lines with answers quite variable depending on geographic location.

Regards

Ken Hume

Ken, it sounds like the Doug Fir you have growing is an inferior species, as your goal is to enhance the hard woods, are you causing problems for the future generations? Would you be using the Fir for framing? What kind of "problem" could one get into? The answer would help in avoiding using such defected timber.

I have seen earth friendly folks culling a stand of White Pine where I know that the majority of logs that came from the thinning could have gone into a building, it went for pulp and a few saw logs. They were using this as a course to teach proper harvesting technique, safety, and using horses to log with. They went on to have a contest for a "green building" the building had chip board in it, which came from who knows where.

I have used lightning struck timber, standing dead, crooked ugly, long stock with sweeps that would have been cut into 12' stock and still have had a sweep, blow downs, and more. I have also used my fair share of premium stock. I don't always have the opportunity to select my choice of logs but it adds to the building when I do and is fun and enjoyable.

I would also add cosmetic defects such as scars, from a number of sources, to the list of usable timber, which you would not find in modern Mc Mansions.

Tim

Hi Mo,

The Doug Fir in our woodland is by no means an inferior timber infact its just the opposite its a very good timber framing timber but it is an imported species and as such it does not really belong in our woodland mix. These trees were planted as an experiment after WW2 and gradually they are being weeded out of the surrounding woodlots which together form part of an AONB (area of outstanding natural beauty). The only 3 indigenous coniferous species to be found in the UK are Scots Pine, Yew & Juniper. I watched my neighbour cut her DF and send this for pulp to Wales. There is no ready established market into which small lots of UK grown DF can be sold. The big hope is that as ownership of Woodmizer type mobile saws grows that conversion of these timbers within the woodland will become a more practical proposition.

I wish that you were here Mo - I would gladly give you the run of the woodland to take your pick. You should ask woodland owners locally - you might be surprised by their reaction.

Regards

Ken Hume