Timber Framers Guild Forums General General Forum Questions Pegs rived from barn timbers

Any thoughts on whether old-growth red oak barn timbers would make good peg material? I have some short, basically unusable sections of what once was a 12x12 tie beam from a dismantled early 1840's barn. Extremely dense growth rings. As my area of N.E. Ohio wasn't settled until the early 1800's, I'm thinking this was a 1st generation barn built with virgin growth timber. I've already riven and shaped a few dozen pegs from this material, stuff looks beautiful, but I don't want to waste my time if there are structural inadequacies (brittleness?) inherent in this material. Haven't used any in a draw-bored joint either. Thanks in advance for any insight.

Ron Mansour

Ron – Glad to see you're again posting to this little under used resource, and I'd think dues would reap benefits beyond those you might find with just buying some ad space. Best with the effort.

Two immediate thoughts – Having busted a few thousand peg blanks and also having worked some recycled Oak, I don't think I'd want to rive long seasoned oak, and if I had to, I'd expect the yield to waste ratio to be less than efficient.

Perhaps the bigger issue is that though in many species tight grain old growth is far stronger, In ring-pourous species such as the Oaks, dense tight count ring growth is weaker. Early wood and late wood are proportionally the same, It is the stronger more resilient fibers found in Summer wood that give Oak its reputation for strength. I'm guessing, for this reason more than age. the wood will be brash.

A better use might be re-saw them into quarter sawn boards and make nice boxes or something fitting from them.

Hi Will and Ron,

In addition - red oak is not durable like the white oaks and so if you must make pegs from this material then do not use these in a position that will be exposed to the weather.

I recall Bruce Hoadley giving a demonstration at UMASS where he dipped one end of a short red oak plank into soapy water and then blew on the other end of the plank causing bubbles to appear at the soapy end.

I currently have a few red oaks in my garden grown from acorns gathered on Royalston Common, Massachusetts and these are now growing at an alarming rate of betwen 3 and 5 ft per year. Nice leaf colour in autumn.

Regards

Ken Hume

Ken;

I have been blindly following the tradition of using mostly red oak pegs even though I have noticed significant powder-post beetle damage in red oak, not to mention white oak is more durable. You have helped me realize I should be using white oak or black locust pegs.

Thanks;
Jim

Hey Will,

You know I'm usually trolling for your response, and as is typical, you "bring it strong". I was hoping for a more glowing recommendation though, as I thought these old-growth pegs might make a nice conversation topic in someones' frame. But I will take your advice and find other uses. Surprisingly, this stuff was not too difficult to split.

I'm in complete agreement with you regarding your first statement. Dues forthcoming very soon. The Guild, just by providing this forum, has put me in contact with so many such as yourself, who freely give their educated responses to the questions we ask. Much appreciated.

Hi Ken,
Regarding that UMASS demo, I also recall a mention somewhere here in these forums of maybe Roy Underhill doing something similar with red oak?
Yup, the reds do grow fast. I've seen the same growth rate in red oak saplings I planted in my yard 20 years ago.

Hi Housewright,

I have an intact 12x12x24' tie beam from the same barn that I was referencing in my initial post that I would like to incorporate into a frame should someone want it, but it is riddled with small pin holes all over. I at first thought they were from powder-post beetles, but after reading some, was under the impression the small exit holes were caused by ambrosia beetles. Whatever the source, have these little critters and their holes caused any structural damage to this tie beam?

Thanks all.

Hi Ron,

Ambrosia beetle can and does consume oak heartwood even in the white oaks and especially where the log is left in contact with the ground or remains unconverted for 18 months or so. I just cut up some English oak cut from a standing dead snag and found that the heart of the branch wood was affected by the little blighter.

Regards

Ken Hume