Timber Framers Guild Forums General General Forum Questions Lapped Dovetail vs Tenon&Mortise Knee Braces

I don't have only one book but other are not showing that much about lapped dovetail and internet is not so rich on information either, and here where i am, noone to help for it! the reason of my post Timbeal

thaks again for your posts D L Bahler,

it 's raining tomorrow morning, I'll take some time to draw different solution that could fit my braces location on the post and beams, and will post it. Agree with Timbeal, when comes the book?
Also, you told me I should show the joineries inside the house.. Unfortunatly not this time, I'm pushing the braces on the outside faces of the timbers to keep the most space to the inside,reason is I'm building a "tiny house" which is only 6 by 6 meter.

ok, I will draw something new tomorrow, we can talk about it again then

Neil, do you have this book? scroll down to page 32.

http://ncptt.nps.gov/wp-content/uploads/2004-08.pdf

Here are some examples of lap dovetails entering at different levels to avoid conflicting each other




Also note the unique shape of the lap joints in these

Hei guys!

so I have been thinking a bit more to that case and I'm now coming up with the following drawing:



I had the "Historic American Timber Joinery" book already Timbeal, but didn't think about looking at it before you mentionned it. Interesting to read as well as the rest of information we went through so far.

But, let's see, I'm finally drawing a Lapped half-dovetail with pin. If I understood correctly, it looks like my entry is slightly refined, is that right?! Also, the angle is refined too, still right?!
The depth of the tenon is 9 cm, and regarding the braces meeting points in the center posts, I'll let them come in contact as you mention previously DL. I still have the possibility to increase the tenon depth on the outside posts where my timber are wide enough to have reasonable wood left back the tenon. I would then go for probably 12cm.
The pin is a 1", or 25mm, cylinder peg, using the slightly overdimensioned method by underdrilling and fitting the peg.
I plan to scribe the tenon on the frame, when members assembled witihn the bent, and when the bents are standing on final location for the braces between bents.

So what do you think about this one? any adjustment you would do, any comments?

Those are simple entry.

Refined entry is where the angle on the brace which on yours follows the edge of the post is instead pushed in, forming an oblique angle to the post edge. This on the short side of the brace.

All that aside, I do like the look of what you have come up with. A shame you won't get to see those angles when done!

ok, I get it now! hehe finally.. I was not sure but considering that i already made a hole which is wide in my opininon, I'll keep the simple entry then, that would probably look weard with a refine entry in the existing case. I'll draft a drawing to compare.

For the fact that we will not see them, it's ok DL, I'll have plenty of possibilities to show some more of joineries later in other places.

I think maybe the best place to see the lap dovetails if you ever want to study them is the region comprised of the Black Forest, parts of Bavaria, Switzerland (particularly the Canton of Bern, where archaic forms are best preserved) over into parts of Austria and into Hungary -for the most part, places of Alemannic settlement but which often happen to have distinct Gothic and Burgundian influences. The Hungarian framing, for example, can be said to be of Gothic descent to a large degree.

As for your joints, I think they are well fashioned, and I would not worry about refining them too much if they are going to be 'blind' that is covered and concealed -this is good practice to learn them really. And as for twisting or withdrawing, since they will be sheathed over this is really not a concern at all

lots on the poland project...



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