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Re: scarfing question
#5746
01/25/07 01:37 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,198
northern hewer
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,198 |
My vote is for the scarf joint to be directly over the post, and let the braces do the only job they are supposed to do keep the framework rigid I have never seen a scarf joint over a brace in a traditional sense, It would be nice to hear if any other researchers or those that dabble in the historical field has seen a scarf joint over a brace. I have been wrong before but lets hear some feedback
NH
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Re: scarfing question
#5747
01/27/07 11:31 AM
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 67
MTF
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Posts: 67 |
I converted to scarf over brace about 5 or 6 years ago and have been very happy with the results. I’m not a 'true student' of historical frames, but the location of scarfs is a feature I look for. I agree it is not the norm to find the scarf located over the brace, but I have seen them there. I’ve also seen examples of the scarf over the post with the scarf showing signs of separating due to high bending loads.
Thanks, pete
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Re: scarfing question
#5748
02/04/07 10:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 71
Timbo
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 71 |
I never understood the scarf over brace idea, but now it makes more sense. I would still scarf (or more likely lap joint)over the post because it looks stronger , more symetrical , and doesn't rely on the brace for support. yes, i believe ,no I know braces often share loads . Braces ,especially in old barns can rot at the lower part of the brace and fail.
Timothy W Longmore
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Re: scarfing question
#5749
02/05/07 02:33 AM
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Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 245
Tom Cundiff
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Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 245 |
There are some advantages to locating the scarf over the brace. The picture shows purlin plates and posts assembled and lifted into place, keeping workers close to the ground. The fewer connections in the air the better. Tom
Not all who wander are lost.
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Re: scarfing question
#5750
02/05/07 11:45 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 194
E.H.Carpentry
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Posts: 194 |
Tom,
is the goal building a frame that can be completely assembled on the ground or should it be build correctly engineering wise? I still would put it over the post. And what happens when the rafters and Sips get installed? Somebody will have to be up on the roof. There is nothing better then scaffolding when it comes to raisings and plenty of it.
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Re: scarfing question
#5751
02/05/07 01:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 895
daiku
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Posts: 895 |
Another vote for scaffolding. And fill in that stiarway hole while you're at it. CB.
-- Clark Bremer Minneapolis Proud Member of the TFG
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Re: scarfing question
#5752
02/05/07 01:54 PM
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Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 245
Tom Cundiff
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Posts: 245 |
EH, This is a frame that is 84' long. If the scarfs were located over the posts, there would have been at least half a dozen more of them to cut. This frame was built at a Guild workshop/rendezvou at the Botancial Garden of the Ozarks by 12 students in two weeks! I did not design the frame, I was just an instructor. I believe that material length plays a big part in determining scarf location. Raising sequence is also a consideration. Unless Testing is done to conclusively disprove the printed material on the placement of scarfs, we will probably see a lot more scarfs over braces, and I will continue to stir the debate. Doubting Thomas
Not all who wander are lost.
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Re: scarfing question
#5753
03/08/07 04:16 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 24
Colton Allen
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Posts: 24 |
This may be a silly question, but say there is no brace. Should the scarf be over the post then?
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Re: scarfing question
#5754
03/08/07 08:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 40
Michal Zajic
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Posts: 40 |
Colton, Surely it is a good idea but scarf does not have to be over post neither directly supported by brace in general. I'd suggest you to have structural engineer locate the exact position and type of scarf. If you're not using structural engineer make it over post. Michal TFDesign.cz
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Re: scarfing question
#5756
03/08/07 07:45 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 286
Raphael D. Swift
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 286 |
Since the infamous diagrams of shear and moment ignore the knee braces the same logic would apply.
Raphael D. Swift DBA: DreamScapes
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