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Old Sash-Saw Mill #16448 08/06/08 05:38 PM
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OurBarns1 Offline OP
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Hi everyone:

I know there are plenty of sawyers among us that will find this post interesting.

I visited this old mill (about 30 minutes from me) last weekend during their annual "Back to the Past" celebration. Scribner's Mill is on the Crooked River, the largest tributary of Sebago Lake here in Cumberland County, Maine.

The mill ran from 1847 until 1962. And in 1977, a large ice flow practically tore the mill apart and sent much of it downriver. But today, a group is in the process of getting things rebuilt and restored, including the sash saw.

The dam that created the millpond and head for waterpower was forcibly breached by the state's wildlife agency in 1972. This was done because Sebago Lake is a world-class salmon fishery: it holds the WORLD RECORD for biggest Landlocked Salmon, which was caught in 1907 and weighed 22 lbs 8 ounces.

The group "Scribner's Mill Preservation, Inc" has filed an application w/ the state of Maine to restore the dam WITH fish passage so that the mill can again be water powered. It is a battleground at the moment, pitting fishermen/environmentalists against the historical groups that want the mill, which is one of only 2 in the country (Virginia?) to have a water powered sash saw that operated well into the 20th century.

google "Scribner's Mill" for more info on this historic site.

There was some timber framing going on when I visited... but the big attraction was the mill, which was churning out wooden barrels from authentic 19th century equipment. Instead of waterpower, the machines were powered by an old tractor's flywheel and a large belt over the weekend.

I snapped a bunch of pics:








How this for cribbing?




The Mill is right over a channel alongside the main river




Original Haul-in-Wheel to bring in logs







They were doing barrel-making demonstrations




A unique saw shaped like a barrel cut the arc-shaped staves




the teeth on the one-piece, round "blade"




Inside the mill. Some old frame rot... square pegs?



Beetle / commander

[img]http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll84/mainebarns/100_9093.jpg[/img]

And some timber framing, for demonstration...

[img]http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll84/mainebarns/100_9076.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll84/mainebarns/100_9091.jpg[/img]


Just a really unique place... I wish them well in their dam efforts. I have put my canoe in here many times over the years for a ten-mile trip downriver... Like I said earlier, they say the mill is one of just two remaining sash-saw operations in the U.S. The blade traveled about 18" and went about 120 strokes-per-minute. Wow.

Work on restoring the sash is in its early stages. I am planning on volunteering as they are looking for folks.



Don Perkins
Member, TFG


to know the trees...


Re: Old Sash-Saw Mill [Re: OurBarns1] #16463 08/07/08 11:10 AM
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Jim Rogers Online Confused
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Great post... keep us updated....


Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Re: Old Sash-Saw Mill [Re: Jim Rogers] #16473 08/07/08 08:27 PM
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OurBarns1 Offline OP
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I thought you'd like these shots, Jim.

Could someone please tell me the best way to tell between sash and band sawn marks?

I'm getting conflicting information. One guy tells me band sawn marks look smoother and are closely spaced. Sash are rough, wide-spaced. Makes sense. A sash is more aggressive. But that's not what this book shows... scroll down and you can see the different pics that are in the book.


http://books.google.com/books?id=2W1Lq_nvlCQC&printsec=frontcover&sig=ACfU3U0oW98Ov6O7CFDAAGFDIsJw8mh5yQ#PPA26,M1


Don Perkins
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to know the trees...


Re: Old Sash-Saw Mill [Re: OurBarns1] #16544 08/14/08 12:35 AM
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OurBarns1 Offline OP
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can somebody help me out with saw mark identification?
(see my last entry upthread).


Don Perkins
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to know the trees...


Re: Old Sash-Saw Mill [Re: OurBarns1] #16546 08/14/08 01:03 AM
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Housewright Offline
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Hi Don;

I agree that the photos of saw marks in the barn guide book are confusing. There may be cases where you cannot tell the difference. One piece of evidence which sometimes can be seen is a small jog in the saw marks from when an up-and-down saw lurched forward or backward while cutting; I do not believe this happens with band-sawn material. That is all I can add.

Jim


The closer you look the more you see.
"Heavy timber framing is not a lost art" Fred Hodgson, 1909
Re: Old Sash-Saw Mill [Re: OurBarns1] #16547 08/14/08 01:06 AM
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I will try to get you a pic of some sash sawn timbers in my old barn. I have a couple, but they aren't too visible. A modern band sawn timber has a much finer cut than a sash sawn timber, but I don't know about an old band saw. Does anyone know if there were any big bandsaws in New England when some of these old barns may have been built? I don't know when bands became popular, but I thought they were, initially, a west coast thing.


Dave


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Re: Old Sash-Saw Mill [Re: Dave Shepard] #16548 08/14/08 01:37 AM
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collarandhames Offline
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Very Cool. Great post! Makes me wonder about mills in my area?
Like Hope Mill? Mark,, you got anything to say 'bout hope mill?

dave

Re: Old Sash-Saw Mill [Re: collarandhames] #16550 08/14/08 01:09 PM
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daiku Offline
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Is a sash mill the same as a "muley"? I've heard Richard Casselman (aka Northern Hewer) use that term for the up and down sawmill he restored at Upper Canada Village. CB.


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Re: Old Sash-Saw Mill [Re: daiku] #16569 08/15/08 02:53 AM
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OurBarns1 Offline OP
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wow... ask and ye shall receive. thanks for the comments everyone.

Housewright:

Yeah, that makes sense that an irregularity in the pattern could indicate sash sawn. I've also heard that a bent tooth in a band saw can produce irregularities too.

I guess it's just tough to tell between the two.


Dave:

some pictures would be helpful. That book I linked to earlier said New England had early Bandsaws but the steel technology made them problamatic. Maybe they weren't so common?


Daiku:

I think a Muley saw is diffferent than a sash. From what I just read, a muley is a really thick, stiff blade... it goes up and down like a sash, but needs no supporting frame (sash) to hold it from twisting, etc.
check out the first couple paragraphs here:
http://www.wrenscottage.com/gvm/craft/trippsaw.php


What say you Jim Rogers? You must have some advice on how to tell band from sash?


Don Perkins
Member, TFG


to know the trees...


Re: Old Sash-Saw Mill [Re: OurBarns1] #16571 08/15/08 10:43 AM
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TIMBEAL Offline
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Hi Don, I have asked this muley/sash saw mark question too. The link helps to explain. A modern portable bandsaw leaves a smoother cut than the old up and down saws. It's saw pattern is regular but can vary with the feed rate. Tooth set is key to how fine the cut is, if there is a tooth off it takes only one to leave a consistent drag mark for every revolution of the band. It wouldn't be irregular unless the operator was irregular and even than it would be a gradual change. I run my mill at a slower rate and on a 12" wide board there is a 1" space between the drag marks. On narrow stock you can push it to 2"+. I am wondering it the up and down saws have an angle to the drag mark, place a square on the board and see if it is true of off. I am going to check my band cut stuff.

Here in Machias there was a large 10" or 12" wide band saw in operation through the early 1900's. Search " from stump to ship" I will with more time, got to run. Tim

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