I am hoping for some advice on making this big decision. I would dearly love to save this building, but I fear it may not be feasible. Maybe I'm better off having it dismantled. I've put a bunch of photos on my web site and welcome any questions. Photos are at

www.karlkoehler.com/barns

If anyone can share any experiences with this sort of process or what it might cost, I would be grateful. Also, any recommendations for contractors appreciated. Located south of Green Bay, WI.

Thank you

Karl - Nice slide show. Looks like there is much worth saving, though despite the all the images it will be hard for anyone to give you an accurate sense of what it might take, and how much such an effort might cost without putting eyes on...

I have an associate in Portage County, so none so far from you, who just returned home to Wisconsin after many months out east helping us on a covered bridge restoration. He has a degree in historic preservation from the Building Preservation Technology Program at Belmont Technical College and has restored and surveyed barns over much of the state.

He could perhaps offer a professional opinion, but like many timber framers and preservation carpenters, he does not frequent this forum. If you PM me I'd be happy to pass along his contact information.

Also, a call to the Guild office might get you a short list of people.

Save it, restore it, please! Beautiful old barns are built better than any cheap pole barn. They've lasted this long... Fix it, reconfigure and repurpose as necessary to make it useful and thereby saving it. Craig Roost is a full time barn restorer/mover/repurposer in the Madison Area. Nice guy, I raised a moved barn with him last summer. His email is saveabarn@yahoo.com
If nothing else, he could point you in the right direction. Brad_bb

I email Craig a link to this post.....

Karl,

Jim did send me a link to your recent post, and I'll have to send Brad_bb something in the mail since I pay him to say nice things about me...maybe a gift certificate to a local "Holister" store..lol

I live south of you between Madison and Milwaukee, and I would like to help you in anyway I can...but first I have some questions about your barn project.

If you were to save it...what would be the barn's function(s)?

There is a wide range between "repair" and fully "restore". Where would this project fall?

Would you be interested in dividing the "laundry list" of repairs into smaller individual projects?...working from the idea of what needs to be done to save or prolong the barns life, to making it functional, to making it look (as the women folk like to say,) Cute?

Are you emotionally attached to the barn?
Or do you just want to have it saved?...even if it means relocating it to someone else's property?


Please share with us your hopes and concerns so we can help find a solution.

Rooster

First off, thank you to everyone for your replies and interest in this. I appreciate it.

The ideal solution would be to save the barn in place and get to enjoy it. But I need to be realistic. If that would take more money than I have, well I guess I'm outta luck. If we reach that point, then dismantling for a better life elsewhere will be the answer. I do not intend to push it into a pit and burn it. (I am also thankful that the first several replies weren't saying "You're nuts! That's not worth saving.")

Function? Big ol' barn I guess. That's enough for me. (I'd fill it, mind you. But I have no aspirations of living in it or anything.)

Repair vs. restore? - I understand that. (I'm an old car guy.) My long-term dream plan would be closer to restore. i.e. painted wood siding, maybe a steel roof, try to keep as much of the fieldstone foundation as possible. Real timber repairs (not so much steel plates and the like). Although I don't see myself paying $800 for a period-correct light fixture or anything. The short-term plans might fall more into "repair." Much more water & frost and there won't be any "restoration" to talk about.

Process? (Well, "cute" ain't happening.) I would like to have a grasp of the total, then break it down into manageable parts. So, yes, dividing the laundry list as described. I just feel I'm out of my element in terms of understanding the total cost.

Emotional attachment? No, it's not my family farm or anything. Still...

Am I likely to find a single contractor to get this all into shape or should I be looking for a jacking/foundation guy first, then a roof guy, then a frame guy, etc? Seems like there are always people dropping in eager to "salvage" the thing. Must be a good market for parts. Same as old cars I guess.

Well, thanks again.
-Karl

Craig, if you could post your reply here too, I'd be interested in where you start. I'd think structural post repair and any jacking and foundation work, quickly followed by patching any immediate roof leaks(tackle roof restoration down the road). Like you hear your inputs though Craig, or how you would break things down.
I don't know what Holister is, but maybe it's like Farm&Fleet down here? You just better have sharp chisels the next time I see you...I'll know enough to bring mine next time, and my sharpening stuff.

Karl, man, I'd definitely have some use in mind if you are going to do this. Maybe building sealed, insulated, heated storage rooms witin the barn? Sealing the whole thing for your heated workshop? Spaces for you or your significant other to do hobbies, garden stuff, wood working, etc? Wedding reception hall? Or maybe start a small dairy or hobby farm with animals? Do you have farm equipment to store? I've got all kinds of ideas...but don't we all....just not enough money to do them all.

I would have a difficult time setting any order of operation to Karl's barn without actually seeing it and exploring the structure. Even with his laundry list of repairs, and the photos on the website, you just have to be there. There might be things that are going "wrong" with the building that he might not be aware of, because they aren't as obvious as an open crack in the foundation, or a hole in the roof big enough to lower a crippled man on a mat through. (Luke 6:17-20)Eh?
But with that being said, I sometimes feel that restoring a barn often parallels the way in which it was originally built...from the foundation up. Putting a new roof on a barn can go a long way towards giving it the help it needs to make it through the next 30yrs, but if it is re-roofed before the frame is straightened then the roof will impede the straightening, or the straightening will cause the roofing material to fail prematurely...But if the frame is straightened and the foundation is shot (leaning, cracks, corner fallen out, etc.), then what do you straighten it to? So in essence the structure is a complete system that relies on it's individual parts working together to keep it standing. If one of these parts is compromised, then others could be affected instantly or over time.
One good example of this would be a barn that I was asked to look at in northern Illinois...it was a TF 42ft x 120ft, 22ft eave on a 8ft exposed stone foundation... MONSTER BARN!
The length of the barn ran north/south, and the west prevailing winds (on the flat open prairie) had slowly pushed the barn frame to the east. Since the barn frame was still very rigid, and was very heavy, it was the foundation walls on the east and west that had a noticeable tilt to the east (5-7 degrees)
At one point I believe that there was a snow load or snow overload problem on the roof, which caused the common rafters to push the top-plate out, causing a couple of posts to split just inside of the post's tenon. This split also traveled down far enough to affect the tie beam and post (mortise and tenon) joint, splitting at the trunnels. Evidence shows that someone tried to pull the top-plate back in with a cable but didn't get it very far. So with the frame still compromised they put a new steel roof on the barn...which was good because it saved the barn from water damage,...bad, because in order to straighten the frame and make it right, the steel roof would need to be removed. It can be a vicious circle sometimes.
Ok, back to Karl's barn. If I were to guess, I would say that the main problems stem from water/frost and cows...or rather, the lack of cows and the heat that they produce while housed in the lower foundation level during the winter season. Dairy cows and stone foundation dairy barns are thought to have a symbiotic agricultural relationship. The combined body heat of a medium sized herd (25 cows in 1910), along with a upper mow full of insulating hay and straw, helped keep the frost from penetrating the stone wall, which over a number of years, can cause the mortar to fail and turn into a crumbly mess, or cause cracks, which lets in more water which freezes and makes a bigger crack, and so on… So once the barn no longer housed cows in the winter, the frost started to mess with the foundation. Rain water that ran off the bank side of the roof, if not collected my eaves troughs/gutters, would have fallen straight down and permeated the ground/bank adjacent to the earth covered stone foundation, where it would be trapped up against the wall and absorbed into the mortar…add freezing temps, and you guessed it…Frost damage to the wall.
Another culprit is overgrown vegetation. The roots of trees can cause issues with the foundation, and the shade they cast, doesn’t allow the barn wood to dry thoroughly. Brush and tall grasses trap moisture and also can cause rot damage.
In terms of what should be done first, I would say,
1. Cut down any tree within 15 ft of the barn.
2. Address the sill beam problems, and the bottoms of the affected posts.
3. Straighten the frame as best you can.
4. Decide if the foundation should be replaced with either concrete or block.
5. Jack up the barn in the areas that the foundation is to be worked on.
6. Possibly excavate the bank side to expose possible problems with the stone foundation.
7. Repair or tuck point wall.
8. Back fill with 2”-3” stone for drainage.
9. Lower barn onto new or repaired foundation.
10. Strip off siding and save.
11. Make repairs to frame components.
12. Re-side with new siding, and sell old siding to offset cost of new.
13. Strip roof.
14. Make repairs as needed.
15. New roof.
16. Paint or stain siding.
17. Put on gutters with down spouts.
18. Break for lunch and a nap.


There are surely other things that can and will alter the sequence of steps, but I hope this helps get a better understanding of a typical bank style dairy, barn and what can be done to save your building.

Rooster
920-728-0353

Beautiful post Rooster! And all before lunch.

As a derail, I wanted to point out, that structural sheet metal popped up again, Don P. A reoccurring theme.

Tim

Yes, great post! Not only very useful and informative, but humorous to boot.

If there is anybody in Wisconsin looking to raise old barns, please to hesitate to call me at 920-380-4149 x106.

We recycle and repurpose old structures into furniture, flooring and any number of other products.

However, when we are offered structures the have integrity and value beyond raw material, like an old bare without rot and structurally sound, our first option is to find a buyer to save the structure first and simply have it reconstructed as a repurposed space. After all, Reuse comes before Recycle in the 3 R's.