Timber storage for my fist timber frame attempt

I have placed my order at the local mill and expect delivery the first of April. The timbers are eastern pine and the majority will be 8"x8" with a few 4x's for girts. The timbers will be stored outdoors in the shade under cover. It will probably take me three months of chips flying before the building will be raised. My question is; since the timbers will be sitting for a lenght of time while I am making saw dust and chips, should I seal the ends of the timbers with something to reduce the chance of checking ? Novice needs advise.

Jeff,

It is a good idea to seal the end grain both when you get the timbers and after the joinery is cut. Don't forget the end grain in the mortises. I use Landark soft wax (I don't have the contact info with me in the hotel) to seal end grain, as I find that it doesn't stain the timbers as much when you slip with the brush. A cheaper alternative is anchor seal or any log sealer. One gallon should be enough.

Good Luck
Gabel Holder

Hey Jeff,
I have used "anchor seal" and am very pleased with the results. I recently used some on a bunch of hardwood i had milled locally here in VT. Ash, Beech, Cherry.etc. So far with great results!
No matter how hard you try and avoid it your green Pine is going to check. The first winter your frame is erected & enclosed be careful how hot you keep it. Are you using stress skin panels? More heat means faster drying in turn more movement, i.e. checking, twisting and shrinkage.

have a good one...

When you stack your timbers, at your place, after you have sealed the ends, make sure you have a good foundation or support for the pile. Make them as level front to back and left to right as you can. Put support blocks every two feet on center and place your separator blocks (as least 2"x2") in-between each row of timbers. Stack timbers of same sizes in each row.
Place your sticker blocks (2x2) in each row directly over the support blocks on the bottom, keeping them all aligned vertically, so that all the weight of the pile is well supported.
After you have placed the top row of timbers, place another row of stickers blocks on and then some other lumber or timber cover, such as a sheet of plywood. Angle this cover sheet so that the rain will shed off the cover. Keep the sides and ends of the pile open so that some air will flow threw. Air flow will prevent the chance of moist air build up which could help mold to form.
Good luck with your project.
Jim

Thank you everyone, the above comments are a great help.

Jeff.

One more thing, Dont go away! I will probably bombard this post with future questions as I frustrate myself with this latest challenge.

Jeff,
just one more thought, try and use dry stickers. green stickers sometimes leave stains that you have to sand out. All depending on what your using for stickers and how long they sit.

enjoy ....ZAC

Hi Jeff,

One other thing. Store your timber with the crown up. The weight of the timbers will reduce the affect of crown. You may have to do this after you timber has cured a little bit in order for the crown to be evident.

Have fun with it.
Ian

I can say that the manner in which you store your timbers does not need to be as elaborate as Jim descrihes. Typically, the system he describes is one which is often reserved for "Boards", which can't span large distances without deformation, rather than for Timbers, which can (depending on their dimensions).

I, and a great number of others, typically use three, or four, supports rather than supports every Two Feet, but, which are still, as Jim relates, as Level, and in Plane, as possible.

Some of what I have found helpful, in addition to the advice on Covering the Piles, and Using Dry Bunks in between Layers to minimize Sticker burn is

* Minimize Plant Growth up through, and around the Bases of the piles. For me enormous sheets of paper making Felt, and old, discarded paneling went down, first, under the Stacks, and served to inhibit weeds, grass, etc.

* Air Flow. One By stickers have always seemed to work MORE than fine with stacks of Boards, but, for stickering Timbers I rarely went smaller than Two Inches, and Often relied on Three Inch stickers. and tried to make my Piles a Maximum Width of Six Feet.
The thickness of the Stickers helps to facilitate that Airflow Jim and the others mention, as well as allowing for Forks to be used to pull the piles apart, if needed. (If the Timbers are stacked Level on an unlevel surface, and the Timber Handling Equipment is unable to pivot it's forks, thicker Stickers will be of enormous help here).
If each stick that goes into a Pile is Done, and the Barn is to be transported to another site for erection, then create your stacks with Loading in mind. This will allow you to rapidly load your frame when the time has come (Something to think about, not neccesarily something to live by).

Three months is a Very short period. Airflow and a good, level Bed, as high up from grade as you can Reasonably get, will be the only truely Crucial elements (and end grain sealer). But, I have had Frames in the yard that Should have gone out in three to four months, become delayed and delayed, and delayed, for one reason or another, so, for me, I got into the habit of stacking as though the timbers would need to sit through multiple Summers. It's not a bad practice to get into.

Tim Berube

How much more does it cost in time or stickers to add another one, two or three to each row?

If you could do this in order to help your timber stay flat and straight, are you going to take the risk not to?

Not aligning your stickers over your support blocks maybe "elaborate", but not doing it is asking for trouble.

Making stacks as wide as 6' works for those who have large forklifts with long forks but for the average do it yourself homeowner this is not likely. And the wider the stack the less air flow threw the pile.

Some projects are once in a lifetime projects, and the people doing them should do what they feel is the best possible practices for themselves.

And what works for one doesn't always work for another, so having all the information or suggestions available and weighing this information to one's own situation is the best method of determining what is best for one's self.

Jim Rogers

oops,

Aligning each sticker over your base support, and, over each other is a given.

But as for having supports every two feet. Again, this is standard practice where One Inch Boards are concerned, but, you are unlikely to find many shops doing this. I Never Have.

Twist is generally in a timber or it's Not. And, if it is, you can often see it (Spiral Grain).

Timbers are not boards, especially your heavier timbers. while a poor pile can act to ruin a run of 1 Inch Pine Boards, and a good pile can help to take some twist and curves out of a stack of boards, the same does not always apply to Timbers, particularly Hardwoods such as Oak.

If you think about it; A timber which will span 8 - 12 Feet in the finished frame certainly does not need to be supported every 2 Feet in the Stack.

As Way of Example;
* A pile of six foot Long, 5 Inch by 7 Inch Braces require only Two supports, Not Three,

* A Pile of Nine Foot Long, 8 Inch by 8 Inch Intermediate Posts requires only Two Supports, not Four.

* A Pile of Sisteen Foot Long, 12 Inch by 14 Inch Summers require only Three Supports, Not Eight.

If these Timbers cannot stay flat, and without twist under these conditions then there is something extremely wrong with the design, for here, in the Stacks, they must merely bear their OWN weight, while, in the Frame, they will be asked to bear MUCH greater Loads.

I would say that the concerns and objectives used when stacking Boards and Timbers can be very Different.

My Concerns when Piling Timbers are

* Moisture
* Stacking in Plane

My Objectives are

* Accessibility and Logistics -- Some Stacks need to be accessed Often ( Particularly in a Scribe Rule Shop, or, where the stacks are simply of Raw Materials) Some Piles will be of finished Materials awaiting shipping, and, thus are more long term. These need to be out of the way of the short-term stacks, and yet, not inaccesible when it comes time to transport them.

There are many ways of stacking Lumber. I agree.

However, a common practice is what is sketched out in these various responses.

* Level -- In Plane -- Supports (Bunks)
* Stickers Over the Bunks and in line with the ones below, and teh ones above
* End Grain sealed (When Possible)

The differences between How I (and Many Others) Stack our Timbers adn the Way Jim is suggesting boils down to the number of supports, and, why you would add them, or, Not.

I would say again, Jim provides an Excellent description of how to stack One Inch Lumber.

Tim Berube

Hey Jeff,

I bet you didn't think you would get this much feedback! Anyway I hope your still having fun.
Just to add some validation, I've taken a quote from Steve Chappell's "A Timber Framer's Workshop";p141

"Pine timbers should be stacked and stickered with one inch Stickings between layers, and one inch side-by side so that there is an even air flow around each timber. Rows should be no wider than four feet, with the timbers stacked high to gain the benefit of the wight of the timbers themselves to resist twisting. Oak timbers can be stacked tight b/c blue stain does not affect hardwoods. In the initial stages of curing, air circulation is not such a great factor as time. Oak tends to crown, twist and warp much more dramatically than pine, so extra care should be taken when stacking and stickering. Stickers should be spaced EVERY TWO FEET"

You really shouldn't be thinking in terms of strength when you say "If you think about it; A timber which will span 8 - 12 Feet in the finished frame certainly does not need to be supported every 2 Feet in the Stack."

Of course its strong enough. But you should be thinking in terms of how to minmize the affects of different drying rates between compression wood and tension wood during curing (ie. removal of water outside the cell wall 4-6 wks after Jeff gets his wood ). It doesn't matter how strong the timber is, the timber will twist and crown depending on how much reaction wood (large variation btwn tension and compression wood) there is. You can sometimes look at a timber's growth rings to predict how its going to dry but good luck getting it right the first time you stack you timber to cure. This why the initial curing process should be thought of much like a flower or leaf press with air circulation. That's why stickers aren't placed less than two feet. We need to maximize the support in one plane but we also need air circulation.

Having said that I know lots of people that don't sticker every two feet. They're also masters when it come to fitting on raising day. I suspect there is less concern over the affects of curing for some because with power tools one can easily get rid of a twist or bowe by simply passing an electric plane over it. But still, it means more prep time on your timbers. If you're just using hand tools, I would think this would bare greater concern.

Ian :p

Ian;
Do not let Steve Chappell's name be used in the excising of Demons.

Allow the validation to come from real world experience And, Real World experiments. Trust what you see.

Before I go any further, it's Very important NOT to stack Green Hardwoods tight. I cannot stress this enough. Bluestaining is a form of fungus -- an initial stage of Rot -- while Oak, and other hardwoods do not get "BlueStain", they Do rot, and will do so Much more Quickly without adequate air flow. The Greying of your timbers is Also caused by a Fungus, as is the Spalting of Maples (though Spalting is a more advanced sign of Rot than is greying).

The question of strength is of particular relevance when determining how many points of support a given timber requires. Strength is also an element as to Why I sticker as I do.

For that matter, the Strength of a given material Very much comes into play when attempting to do what it is that you are recomending -- The Deformation and Bending of a Heavy Timber --Twist, Crown / Bow,

The Thickness of Stickers
In many shops, the thickness of stickers has more to do with the methods of handling the timbers than it does with facilitating Drying.

I am a Traditional Timber Framer who, for many years obtained timber by Purchasing and/or Sawing (WoodMizer) and Hewing. When I was running my Own shop (Up until Two Months ago), the means of moving the timbers were entirely by hand. One of the primary methods of getting sticks from one place to another (this often included loading Flatbeds) was by sliding, or rolling, them along 3 x 3 skids. Consequently my stickers were 3 x 3's.

This is a Practical Consideration.

At the shop I am currently at almost all timber is moved with a "Lull". The Forks do not rotate. Stickers in this shop do not tend to be smaller than 3 inches either. And the practicality again stems from the requirements of the Timber Handling.

A Real World Look at Supports
In order to see why Supporting a One Inch Board every Two feet is important perform a small experiment. Take Six eight foot boards and Six eight foot 8 x 8's and support them only on the ends.

(Let your boards be Pine and at least Two of your timbers be a fairly strong Hardwood -- for the last two set ups)

Stack one set (One Board and One Timber) on a pair of bunks perfectly in plane, but with nothing atop them.

Stack another set on the Same set of bunks but with simulated Weight over the point loads (the Bunks)

Stack your third set on out-of-plane Bunks (You are attempting to induce a twist here -- which is the SAME as attempting to take twist out, ie; you are acting to deform a length of wood). The excercise here is see how much force is needed. Keep stacking weight atop this set until you have achieved the desired deformation.

This last stack should be done with timbers of both soft, and, hardwoods, as their ability to resist this type of deformation varies considerably.

Your Final Stack should be on a set of bunks placed every Two Feet (beginning at the ends of the timber/board). Again, let these Bunks be out of Plane, but, in such a way that it resembles a twist (Making One bunk up, the next down, and so on, would make deformation of the timber virtually impossible and would skew the results)

Let one stack have the remaining Hardwood, and one the remaining Softwood Timber. Attempt to add wieghts over the Stickers (Point Loads) until the timbers again deform to match the arc of the Bunks.

My Prediction
I would predict that over time the first set shows no deformation in the timber, but significant deformation in the Unloaded Board -- that the Timber is more than strong enough to support it's own weight, but that the board is not.
Further, there will be no twist in the timber unless spiral grain is present.

The second set will show pretty much the same results (deformation in the board, none in the timber)

For the third set, deformation of the softwood timber is possible, though only with the application of a decent amount of weight, while deformation of the Hardwood is beyond the practical limit (ie; it will take more than balancing a verticaly standing 14' White Oak 8x8 on either end of the timber).
Deformation of the boards should occur very readily.

The fourth set should be the most difficult scenario of all, for inducing twist.
Supporting the Timbers every Two feet should distribute the load so much so that significantly More weight is needed to deform the Softwood timber, and, the Hardwood timber (though it will be much eaiser to stack greater weights on it now -- as there are many more point loads on it) will again be virtually impossible.

A Final Experiment
Set up Bunks, outdoors on only roughly level Earth on Two Foot Centers for a stack 4 - 6 feet wide, by 14 feet long (8 Bunks).

Shoot the grades of each and every bunk, shooting two elevations for each bunk, and mark the points so One can find those exact points again.

Make sure that All the bunks are perfectly in plane, and make that plane be Level.
And then fully load them (An eight foot high stack of lumber).

Over the course of the next two to three weeks, shoot the bunks periodicaly, and see how, or if, any of these bunks are moving.

The point of this is that as One adds bunks, the diffuculty in getting them ALL in plane increases substantially, and, they are not likely to stay in plane either.

The Practical aspect of fewer Bunks is that you can more precisely determine Where the support for your timbers will be. You don't have that flexibility with Boards, as, a softwood board simply does not have the strength to span much more than Two feet without deforming over time.

Further, Most timbers do not come from the sawmill perfectly straight and square. These imperfections are, of neccessity, within the pile. Two foot centers magnify the bows and twists that were Sawn into the stack, while, centers that are more spread out tend to mellow the influences of these flaws on the overall stack

There are practical realities, and Shop realities which cause us to sticker timber as we do.
Two Foot centers are not the Ideal to Reach for.

I never thought my simple question would get this level of discussion going?

A good solid well supported storage structure just makes plain sense to me and that is what I did... 8" CMU blocks placed on 12"x24"x2" thick concrete slabs spaced 4' on center. I used my 4"x8" sill plates as the rails and placed 4x4's on top 2' OC, leveled with my transit dead nuts, timbers stickered with kiln dried 2x2's. This support bed cost me nothing but a little extra time.

As a homeowner constructing a once in a lifetime project, the extra labor involved (not much) is effort well spent to protect my investment of both time and dollars. I dont have time for trial and error or the $ to learn the hard way.

Jeff

green timbers (before cutting joints) i stack crown up on two supports outdoors, bigger beams in single layers and smaller stuff in multiple layers.
finished timbers i stack stickered under steel roof sheets outdoors or in our old barn with the hay and straw (and chickens-for that rustic finish)
-Mark in Ontario.

I agree with Tim and would strongly second the idea of a ground cover, I have used woven geotextile which is left over from lane construction also the spun geotextile, filter fabric, would also work very well a s a plant barrier.