tie below the plate with king post?

Has anyone ever come across a traditional frame with a king post in a tie below the plate configuration. It seems all of the pics and frames I have seen with a king post are in a tie at the plate design(english tying joints)I wonder if it still functions well with a tie below the plate design or if the that nice triangle is necessary for it to work properly. Can anyone shed some light on this or have some pics of such frames? tb

I can't speak to this from a historical perspective, but I can from an engineering perspective. When you drop the tie beam, even a little bit, you've switched the critical rafter foot connection from a compression joint into a tension joint. Also, the further you drop it, the higher the tension, as the rafter thrust at the post top is acting as a lever, trying to pry apart that joint.

You asked for pictures, and I have some. There are my own work. The client insisted on exactly what you asked for, and probably for the same reason: loft space. I'm sure you'll be able to spot the compromise solution . CB.




CB.

very nice Daiku. I appreciate your input. it seems that my original thought, that the king post is not suited for tie below the plate frames, was correct. Too bad for the needed steel but it still looks awesome and it seems to be right where a railing of some sort is necessary anyway. Thanks again tb

hey, what about a queenpost?
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=186d0e940e789ec8f2c360edc7dd321d

I have nothing against queen posts in fact I actually prefer the look of them personally to the king post, surprisingly. I was just curious if one could use a king post in a tie below the plate design as I have never seen an example of one until Daiku posted that pic. Still it seem that it just does not suit the tie below the plate configuration well enough. Thanks Mark and Daiku. I have not yet come to full understanding on the queen post truss as well, I have posted a new topic on it. Perhaps you might be able to shed some light. tb