Timber Framers Guild

Forum Lurkers

Posted By: Ken Hume

Forum Lurkers - 12/31/10 08:18 AM

Hi,

Its been quiet around here of late and so I thought that I would take a look at the "user list". This lists all the persons who have "last visited" and so I quickly counted that about 50 TFG Forum stalwarts have chesked in over the last 3 days however apparently with very little to say or contribute.

Has cabin fever struck ?

Regards

Ken Hume
Posted By: bmike

Re: Forum Lurkers - 12/31/10 02:18 PM

Ken, prior to this post on 12/31 your last post was 11/30!

What have you been up to?

And stateside things usually slow down between Xmas and New Years.
Posted By: cedar

Re: Forum Lurkers - 12/31/10 05:28 PM

I agree with Ken. Very few people have been on the forum. I have been mostly reading the posts and enjoying them.
Posted By: brad_bb

Re: Forum Lurkers - 01/01/11 05:52 AM

I don't understand why more guild members aren't on this forum. I know guys out there are working on projects, well at least I'm sure many are. Post some pics, tell a story for goodness sake! I know I would if I had one. I am working on something that will be of interest to many guild members, but it will be a few months before I'll be ready to show everyone. A few people know, but I'm keeping it quiet til I know it's going to work. I'm aweful, eh?
Otherwise I'm recovering from the holidays, too much food eaten, getting back to the gym, trying to work on a million small chores and projects here on the farm, including finishing an addition of sorts on my shop so I can clear the shop of stuff for "storage".
Posted By: Ken Hume

Re: Forum Lurkers - 01/01/11 09:59 AM

Hi Mike,

Guilty as charged !

I posed the question because over the years I have noted that activity on the board seems to run in waves and it would be interesting for the Guild to run some analytics to see who / what drives the forum along.

Regards

Ken Hume
Posted By: bmike

Re: Forum Lurkers - 01/01/11 03:14 PM

Analytics cost money
$ comes from members


I'd rather the TFG use $ from members to deliver real world benefits than trying to analyze how a forum gets used. Publications, projects, etc.

The forum is here. We've discussed before how / why people may or may not want to use it. If you build it, they will come. Or not.
Posted By: Gabel

Re: Forum Lurkers - 01/01/11 06:26 PM

I've been quiet lately. I've been checking in a few times a week, but right now with work, family, holiday travel, and other things that compete for my spare time, I just haven't had much to say.


I wish more practicing timber framers would post here, but I understand the reality that at the end of the day, it's not always healthy for "work" to spill over into your "downtime" by spending time posting about timber framing online while the rest of life happens around you.

Speaking of "work" spilling over into "downtime", I have to go put on some raingear and unload a truckload of timber that is arriving at the yard in a half hour. It's dumping rain and will be for the next several hours, it's Saturday, and it's New Year's day. That's my little bit of timber framing activity to share with you guys. I doubt I'll be able to take any photos you guys would care to see. (I'm not complaining...Ok, maybe just a tiny bit wink )

In the next week or so, (while my family is out of town) I'll try to post a few pics of some stuff we've been doing for the last while. Things are a bit slow on the forum.
Posted By: D L Bahler

Re: Forum Lurkers - 01/01/11 06:27 PM

I think it is good if your forums have 2 kinds of people posting on them:
1 people who have questions and kind find the answers or who need pointed in the right direction (NOT people to lazy to look things up for themselves. that bugs the tar out of me!)
2 People who have ideas and need a channel to bring them out, and a setting for genuine discussion, and who want the input of others.
Thus forums will be centered around giving help to those who need it, and in presentation and development of new ideas. For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.

Perhaps you have a different idea for what forums should be?

Keep in mind that my ideas of things come from my German heritage, and from my fascination with ancient Greek thought...
Posted By: Ken Hume

Re: Forum Lurkers - 01/03/11 10:38 AM

Hi,

When I posed my original question about recent forum activity I made this more as a child like flyaway remark but I have since thought better of my question and now see that some investigation into the metrics that lie behind this question are required in order to take stock about the future direction that this forum and other forms of virtual communication might take.

For example, Guild membership numbers have now fallen considerably from their lofty peak of 2000+ and I confess to being one of those who got to a point where I choose not to renew my membership. The reasons for this decline need to be known and understood if the fortunes of the Guild and its long term survival are to be assured. I conveyed my concerns and suggestions to the executive and I am pleased to report that they listened, heard and acted upon what I had to say.

The average age of members is, I would now guess, considerably older than when the Guild was founded back in the mid eighties and some of the founders must now be at or past retirement age (65?). Richard Casselmaine is a prime example of someone who has spent a lifetime amassing knowledge and has recently used this forum to good effect in sharing this with budding timber framers.

We have in the past 5 years seen the rise of Twitter, Facebook, the blogosphere and the move away from the desk based pc to the hand held phone / Ipod / Blackberry type devices.

Many of the early Guild members (including me) have studiously researched, analysed and sythethised the craft of timber framed building and possibly are approaching saturation point but still hanker after that next hard to come by fix.

There has been a resurgence of interest in formal apprenticeship based learning rather than the previous approach of self discovery which was undoubtedly the very driver needed to promote the close cooperation and sharing required to rediscover and revive this "forgotten craft".

D L Bahler has recently drawn our attention to the almost total absence of individuals from countries other than England, Canada and the USA. I now find myself communicating directly with colleagues in Australia and Europe who are only now beginning to use an email based approach to undertaking wider building technology research and appear to be unaware of the Guild. What about the rest of the world - don't they exist ? - have they nothing to offer ?

We have seen the recent move by the Guild away from the exclusive use of a paper based approach to formal communications now embracing and adoptng a digital based approach to generating income by recognising customer based market segmentation and discrimination now resulting in different types of membership categories which hopefully might in the short term afford economies (postage, printing, paper stuffers, etc.) and in the longer term generate opportunities for the growth of membership (publication subscriptions, etc.).

One thing is for sure - it will never again be like it was before.

Regards

Ken Hume

Posted By: D L Bahler

Re: Forum Lurkers - 01/04/11 02:28 AM

There is no hiding the fact that our economies have taken a serious blow, a blow caused mostly by our own bad decisions culturally. By that I am referring to our disposable culture, our love of instant results and flashy new toys. There is also no way around the fact that the new home market is one of the hardest hit areas, and we are all suffering as a result.

With this economic crisis we have a major choice to make, we can either let it destroy us, or we can let it teach us some valuable lessons.

I think that timber framers have the opportunity to revolutionize our world right now, and we need to do everything in our power to make that happen. We have the opportunity to show people the values of permanence, of sustainability, of craftsmanship, etc. and I am sure that if the new home market were revolutionized in this way, these attitudes would spread to the broader culture.
Posted By: Andrew Young

Re: Forum Lurkers - 01/04/11 04:12 AM

Hi Ken,

Some thoughts...


I am passionate about timber framing on several levels; to build my own house and for greater historical projects.

First of all, TF is still seen as a artsy-craftsy curiosity by many home owners who also have limited pocketbooks, especially now. Many people like the craft, but its not a cheap approach so this does limit who can afford it.

Second, its hard work. At 37 years old, I hate saying this but I feel many young(er) people are lured by the information technology/computer arena (or other fields that pay very good money for less work)...so this tends to reduce your pool of contestants. I dont see this as a huge problem in some ways because TF is still regaining acceptance. It would be far worse if there were tens of thousands of TFramers who were out of work.

Proximity. While I am self taught at many historical trades (blacksmithing, armouring, period wood work, etc) I find that timber framing is a much harder craft to practically experiment with due to its inherent size and related costs. I have tried to read as much as I can, and have acquired many period tools in an effort to learn TFing but its hard to find big logs that one can surreptitiously 'work' in ones backyard without alienating neighbors wink

So before the economy took a dive, I have hunted around for local framing business in the mid-Atlantic/Washington DC area. Few framers (that I knew of) exist out here near Washington. And of those that did, I did not get a sense that apprenticeships were ripe for the taking. Maybe I was wrong, however open slots for "seasoned newbies" was still not prevalent. And professional training can be hard if one is married and has a family that depends on a certain dollar income to survive; a poignant fact particularly now.


While I am self employed, and earn a fair living, I would jump at the chance to apprentice with a TF company if I could bring down at least 35k (to pay the mortgage, bills, etc and somehow manage to see my family a few times a month during the duration of the apprenticeship).
Posted By: Gabel

Re: Forum Lurkers - 01/04/11 06:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Andrew Young

While I am self employed, and earn a fair living, I would jump at the chance to apprentice with a TF company if I could bring down at least 35k (to pay the mortgage, bills, etc and somehow manage to see my family a few times a month during the duration of the apprenticeship).


Andrew,

Thanks for the post. There's a lot for me to ponder from my perspective as a member of the Guild's Board of Directors as well as a member of the Apprenticeship Committee (and a registerd Journeyman and timber frame business owner).

Did you know the TFG has a Department of Labor registered Timber Framing Apprenticeship Program? It's a three year program where the apprentice works full time under the direction/supervision of a Guild Journeyworker. Each of the three years, the apprentice also takes 144 hours of "related training" where some of the skills and knowledge that are difficult to pass on in a work setting are taught.

Apprentices are required to be paid at 1/2 the JW pay for the first year, then it goes up from there.

There's tons more info on the guild homepage (www.tfguild.org) toward the bottom of the page. Be sure to check out the curriculum to see the impressive breadth and scope of what is taught in just three years. I've also attached the Guild's brochure about the program to this post in case anyone is curious.

Gabel

Attached File
Posted By: Andrew Young

Re: Forum Lurkers - 01/05/11 01:36 AM

Thanks Gabel

Ive visited your site before, great stuff. Im particularly fond of the hand hewn stuff. I will check into the files you sent.

Are you all on facebook ? Ive got a nice collection of historical axes and wood working tool sdating back to the 13th century you might find interesting. Acquired a 15th and 17th century axes just recently actually. Ive been forging/replicating working replicas based on studying the originals, which helps greatly.

Drew
Posted By: D L Bahler

Re: Forum Lurkers - 01/05/11 02:34 AM

Mr. Young, I would love to see some of your axes, particularly medieval examples. I have a keen interest in medieval tools and otherwise old tools, particularly axes, and would love to have such a collection of my own some day. I doubt I could spare the money for your replicas right now, but some day perhaps...
Posted By: northern hewer

Re: Forum Lurkers - 01/05/11 02:36 AM

Hello everyone tonight:

I worked for a number of years under the direction of one of the best Historical achitects in Canada Mr. Peter John Stokes, I am just throwing this in because I am sure that Peter had never laid a hand on a broad axe but could visualize the resulting finishes that he required.

He amassed this information from not only education alone but from crawling around getting dirty and examining many period structures. He was an expert at opening up a wall or ceiling and then sketching freehand drawings (to scale) for you to work from that never seemed to contain any irregular measurements

I suggest that any one of you guys that have some unemployed time to spare keep amassing knowledge about what ever you are interested in, it will come in handy some day.

For instance I restored a 1784 period wooden Garrison Carriage about 20 years ago not realizing that the knowledge that I gained at that time would come in handy now once more

If you want to honestly build your own timberframe home examine many and work out all to logistics and costs. you might even hew the timbers at another site and frame them closer to your residence.

You may even give up the idea and go in a very new direction, keep your mind open to new ideas, and don't let the modern world rule, but use it to your gain.

Good luck

NH
Posted By: D L Bahler

Re: Forum Lurkers - 01/07/11 03:39 AM

Originally Posted By: Andrew Young

First of all, TF is still seen as a artsy-craftsy curiosity by many home owners who also have limited pocketbooks, especially now. Many people like the craft, but its not a cheap approach so this does limit who can afford it.


Andrew, I look at your words here and can almost mistake them for my own! This is the very issue that I have devoted a considerable amount of time and research into solving. I thinking the biggest stumblingblock here is our own mindset. Timber framing is seen as an artsy-craftsy style in league with log building and other such, and I think the biggest reason is because that is how timber framers tend to look at it. A timber frame is a work of art. period. John Q. Public isn't gonna live in a work of art. John Q. Public can't afford to live in a work of art. John Q. Public doesn't want to live in a work of art. He wants to live in a nice, clean, normal American home. It may seem dull and perhaps even a bit depressing, but the fact is it is true.

Perhaps we should create a whole new category of home building that fits nicely somewhere in between the stick frame and the timber frame. For now we will just call this the joined frame. What I have in mind here is a system that is designed from the ground up with the intention of making the timber frame accessible to everyone. A way of not just saying that everyone should build timber frames, but actually making it possible.

I have a system that I think will work, but I'm not ready to let the cat out of the bag just yet. I assure you that these forums will be the first place I make it known. There are still lots of issues to be worked out, and I am sure you will find even more. But I think that this will work.

These homes are designed to be permanent. They are designed to last, and to retain their value. Their biggest purpose for existing is to eliminate the wastes created by our horrendously inferior modern homes. They are also designed so that they can be built entirely of local materials with minimal impact. It It is also designed to work well with natural or modern enclosure methods. You might infill with brick, loam, or even stone. Or maybe instead you will enclose it with foam and fill the cavities with cellulose or fiberglass.

This system has taken a lot from many different sources. It has taken inspiration from the American TF revival, from the green building movement, from European traditions and innovations, and has even taken some inspiration from modern methods. It is really a total rethinking of things in many ways, but at the same times is in many ways a return to much older practices.

My wish is this, that others might do the same thing. Take a look at what you have and find out how to use it. The World is an endless source of inspiration; there are traditions all over that we can learn from. Start with a clear goal in mind, not just a distant wish upon some unseen star, and go for it with all you have. If we do this, we can change things in a good way. We can sit back and complain about things all day long, but we are foolish if at the same time we do nothing about it. The only way positive change is ever going to happen is if someone actually starts it, and if someone brings out an idea that doesn't seem 'flaky' or weird. Something that the average American will be comfortable with. This may mean making a few compromises, but perhaps that's what we must do, and slowly introduce people to the better way.
Posted By: Andrew Young

Re: Forum Lurkers - 01/11/11 02:21 AM

Sure DL. I will post some on my website and upload here I guess.

Bug me if I dont get to it in the next week. Im up to my ears in a kitchen make-over at the moment.
Posted By: Andrew Young

Re: Forum Lurkers - 01/13/11 11:33 PM

Here ya go DL.. enjoy

http://www.tfguild.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=25164#Post25164
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