Storage of timberframe

Hi - I'm planning on timberframing my own home. My plan is to cut the frame over a number of years and store the timbers as I go until the frame is complete.

My question is this - how long can I store the frame before it's raised? Potentially some of the timbers will be sitting for 3 yrs or more before they're raised.
Will this be a problem? WhI'm going with Jack Sobon's design in his book "Build a Classic Timberframe House" with a bump-out on the back wall.

....didn't finish the post before it posted.

Since I work full time, I plan to cut the frame in the evenings and on weekends. I plan to use liberal amounts of "anchor seal" on the end grain as I complete each timber and place it into storage

- How many years can I store the frame?
- Will checking and twisting make it difficult to put the frame together?
- I plan to keep the cut timbers under tin:
- How high should I keep the timbers off the ground?
- How close should my stickers be?

- Sould I plane the beams before they're stored?

Thanks for your help!

What kind of species are you using? I would use something stable like white pine. Twisting and warping will be a potential problem, but good storage practices will help with that.
I would plane timbers before you do joinery. Otherwise it could affect fitting.
I would space stickers about 2' apart. And make tall piles so there is a fair bit of weight on the beams.
I guess they are not going to stored in a building?
I would keep them a couple feet off the ground, preferable protected from rain splashing on the sides.
I hope that helps...

hello tonight

well my thoughts are---from past experiences--

We did alot of hewing of timbers at UCV as demonstration work, but with a purpose in mind--something like you are doing--

For instance when we needed the A frame bridge replaced--with many special sized timbers--some were 16" square 30 feet long--we hewed for 3 seasons, laying away each one carefully, but not outside, we stored them in an open sided building, nothing special, but good weather protection is important for sure--we , hewed all northern white pine, and left them rough hewn, because that is what was needed

Now there is something to be said for leaving them dry rough, for instance if they happen to twist, you can counter hew them to straighten them up--(take the wind out of them)--remember that timbers dry slowly also, it might take 3 or 4 seasons to nearly dry a timber to a point that it will stay nearly stable in a warm environment

It sounds like you are going to plane them at some point, that is another need to have them as dry and stable as possible, they will also be lighter to handle

We just put narrow boards between the layers, and kept an eye out for those pesky powder post beetles, that love any type of damp wood, and it will stay damp where they are stickered, so once a year we would roll them out and check them and resticker in a different location

Another point-- the last timbers that you do will be alot greener than the rest--don't forget that--so there will always be that differential--try and do the important timbers first, like the long upper plates and wall timbers, the lower or floor structure isn't quite as important, or those that are covered up

I really don't know if sealing the ends is a good thing, the timbers breathe and expell their moisture through their ends, so in my book leave the ends alone, sawn lumber is a different thing and can be handled differently.

I never remember seeing timbers split at the ends from drying--nothing more that normal checks--maybe some of you guys can comment

NH

Hmmmm.....thanks you guys! Well, jack sobon recommends using hardwood for the posts and braces, and softwood was for the tiebeams and plates. My thoughts were maple for the posts and braces and hemlock for everything else. Is hemlock a good choice? sounds like white pine maybe better?

I was under the impression that anchor seal helped to slow the rate of drying, but since it will sit for potentially years, perhaps I should not bother?

Also, do u recommend planing each piece before I cut any joinery ? My concern was that I would have sticker marks on the beams and if I waited to plane I could plane away the marks as I'm getting ready to raise the frame...thought?

Thanks!

Use anchorseal and dry stickers.

OK! sounds good. What are your thoughts on best softwood species to use? Hemlock or white pine?

I'd go white pine, but you'll likely have blue stain issues to deal with. Not a fan of hemlock do to too many issues in the past getting material with ring shake, others use it with good success.

http://www.treesearch.fs.fed.us/pubs/19175

Pine is nicer than hemlock, from my side of things. If all the sapwood is sawn off you will not get blue stain. But you need bigger logs for this to happen. Soaking the logs in a pond helps with eliminating blue stain, too.

Sticker stain most likely won't plane out, it seeps into the timber a fair bit, 1/2" or so. Yes, dry stickers, saw in the winter, and keep dry.

I'd stay away from maple. It really tends to twist up badly. It also is the most MISERABLE wood to try to tool. It's so hard. I used it a bit for a project and regretted it as soon as I had to start chiseling. The only thing I would use maple for is braces. Oak works very easily for a hardwood, I would recommend that.
As far as pine vs hemlock...
Hemlock gets really tough to work when it dries. It's not bad when green though. IF you have good material. Hemlock is good when it's good garbage when it's bad. I'd take pine over hemlock.
Whatever species you use, try to get winter cut wood. In my experience it makes a big difference in checking and stability.

Hello,

In paying attention to the details of stickering you will be successful having no unwanted long term effects and much of what that success entails has been mentioned. The only thing I will add is that the stickering wood must be softer, less dense, lighter - you get the idea - than the wood you are stacking. In most cases then fir is good. On no account use composite wood based materials.

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

Today I would like some information on putting in double glazed sealed units into Merlin timber framed houses which is one of best timber houses . Detailed plans of sealed units pleasee. it Would be grateful to get some more info on this topic if you have more information about this share here...?

Check out this older thread.


http://forums.tfguild.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=27304&page=1

I'm a little worried though... I plan on cutting the frame over a number of years and storing the pieces as I go. So I'm having nightmares of going to put it together and the checking a twisting making it impossible to put it together.

I'm planning on building Jack Sobon's house, and I plan on starting with the floor system this summer. Is this the best plan? Should I start with other members first?

Also, I've heard that I should wait on cutting the braces until just before the raising because the 45 degree cuts are more likely to deform over time than other joinery that is either perpendicular or parallel to the grain.

Saw out the brace stock but wait to cut the tenons until it is close to raising time. I try to keep brace stock on hand for such purpose.

spruce is more apt to twist, white pine is more stable and not and issue, you can cut joinery for the most part and be fine with pine.

My Sobon frame (in spruce w/ oak braces) was originally cut and assembled as it progressed to ~3/4 complete then disassembled half a year later and shipped to me when I purchased the incomplete project. It then sat exposed in Mass ~6 monhts and covered in my field a couple of years before I was ready to erect and complete it.

I had surprisingly little trouble with twisting of the major timbers (possibly due to drying in an erected frame). I noted some twisting in the unfinished rafters (which spruce is very prone to do), and learned a few things about storing timbers the hard way.

1) Be sure to allow a decent air space between your tin and the timbers as well as between any tarping you have on the sides, and don't tarp all the way to the ground as it can trap moisture in.

2) I'd suggest laying down 30# roofing felt on the ground as a barrier between the timbers and any ground water.

3) Anchor Seal is worth it's weight in gold.

PS: Although Eastern White Pine is a great wood for timber framing the Sobon frame is NOT engineered for it (I don't know about SYP). When I ran the numbers for spruce they were scary tight, fine on the posts and OK for the beams but a little bouncier than code for the floor joists.

How about this combination:

- posts= oak
- braces = maple
- floor joists, tie beams, girding beams, plates - spruce or hemlock
- floor system - hemlock
- rafters - spruce/hemlock

I noticed that no one seems to like hemlock..is there a reason for this? I've noticed that is is dificult to work when dry, but I plan on cutting them green....


Thoughts?

also, can u recommend a good source for running the numbers? possibly an online calculator?

I'm planning on widening the house to 24' (vice 18') and would like to do the math. I plan on adding posts mid span beneath the girding beams to add support for second floor.

thank u all for your advice!

I attached a couple views for reference to my last post....
What are folks thoughts on adding collar ties to the rafters? Are they needed?

thanks,
Mike

The maths is generally not so simple as to suit an online calculator. That said, it's not overwhelming complex either. "Building the Timber Frame House" by Tedd Benson has a fairly straightforward treatment of it at the back of the book. Failing that, I can dig out the various articles I used to build the software that I verified my beams with.*

*Before you ask, the software is far from ready for public consumption for a great many reasons, and offering it for use would open me up to legal nightmares if I've got the maths wrong anywhere!

Thanks Jon...I have that book and I'll look into it.

-Mike

Increasing your frames depth to 24' is certainly doable, but will almost certainly require resizing/spacing your attic floor joists (possibly switching to an engineered joist).

It's impossible to advise on rafters without knowing your local snow load requirements. If that load is high it may make sense to add a pair of posts to support every beam and extend that up into to the attic to support mid-rafter carrying beams.

Ultimately your best bet is to get a timber frame engineer to check all your calculations and discuss options with you. And you'll probably need to have one sign off on your final design to satisfy your local zoning and planning officials.

IIRC aside from splinters, the biggest objection to hemlock is the possibility of ring shake. Most people will avoid the gamble that a cut timber starts coming apart as it dries as they aren't following it from growing tree to finished beam.