HELP!-Need to fix crooked column already installed

Hello everyone,

I would really appreciate some advice on how to fix the crooked column shown on the pictures from the point of the bracket attachment to the floor. We do not have similar piece to cut and replace. The framer does not have any barn structure experience.

Thanks in advance!

IMHO, The photos do not make a case for replacement, the post although out of plumb appears very sound, no circumstance is evident concerning why the post is out of plumb. A visit to site is in order to provide meaningful advice. What does the frame erector think?

The post is actually not in good shape (damage not seen from this angle)and we will fix with "liquid wood" as per structural engineer recommendation. The question here is how can we make the bottom half perpendicular to the floor. He wants to cut a like a wedge slot (horizontal) and push the post in.

This is the top of the same post.

Since, I or anyone else can not see beyond the floor and whatever foundation, post and beam work exists, all comments would be based on imaginative speculation, which I would like to avoid. Since you have an engineers report, I urge you to get aid from the engineer on selecting a repair contractor.

The engineer and the contractor do not have good suggestions how to make this column perpendicular to the floor. The support below is not an issue, there is a beam. I am not looking for evaluation on the support and structural integrity situation, just remedy for the above listed issue.

I see Roger's point. What I don't see is what the real issue is. Re saw the bottom of the post, if it needs it, use a hand pull saw. Is the post attached to the lower beam via a tenon? Why is it out of plumb in the first place? Can it simply be driven over with a big hammer? If it has a tenon, try cutting the mortice longer and drive it over to plumb. I can keep going with more questions but as Roger points out, imaginative speculation. This begs the question what kind of contractor and engineering people are working on this project?

Quote, "I am not looking for evaluation on the support and structural integrity situation, just remedy for the above listed issue."

Sorry, whatever the realm of viable solutions are, it is clear to me that the solutions exist within the structural context. Be wary of simple forcing the bottom of the post over the needed inches because the post becomes a honking big pry against upper joints. Generally, moving any portion of one member can have a number of effects regarding other members, so the upper level joinery needs to be fitted to the change of position of the post.

Quote, "The engineer and the contractor do not have good suggestions how to make this column perpendicular to the floor."

Do you have a full understanding of the advice you are receiving or what would be "good suggestions"?

By looking at the first two pictures in the first post, there seems to be very little joinery, just three houky brackets. I speculate there is no joinery. The post does extend beyond the two connectors, and yes what happens above that should be considered.

This whole thing seem silly, just leave it crooked. Why does every thing have to be plumb?

I'm with Timbeal. Can't you just leave it crooked? Maybe tap it over a wee bit till things start to creak and call it good. It's an old barn post, it's supposed to be crooked. I don't think you would get that old post plumb without cracking something at the top end.

Hi MBE,

First let me apologize before hand it my reply sounds curt, it is not aimed at you, but at some of the work that I am observing in the first two photos.

Timbeal wrote: "This begs the question what kind of contractor and engineering people are working on this project?"

I could not get past what I saw in the photos of the the work being done, and Timbeal's question above goes to the heart of this...

There is nothing to do about a twisted post in a vintage frame of this type, comprised of historical fabric, unless that frame member is presenting as compromised, which leads to why it was employed in the first place without the applicable restorative work performed first, and with proper "good practice in means, methods and materials," as it applies to the timber frame craft.

As an active participant restoration timber framing, and traditional Barnwright, I would go further to add that whenever repurposing a vintage barn frame, the use of "large steel brackets" and "we will fix with "liquid wood" as per structural engineer recommendation," indicates dilettante skill set.

Rebuilding vintage wood with epoxies,structural adhesives, and/or internal reinforcements is a very specific skill set, and should only be executed by a seasoned Timberwright and/or under the guidance of a PE with a historical timber framing experience, especially if the structural member is going to be subjected to any of the moment of inertia a timber frame can receive from seismic, weather, or functional load events.

I DO WANT to be helpful, but the scope of your challenge is not going to be effectively addressed here in this forum through simple dialogue. There is just too many mitigating circumstances to consider. I have faith that most of the responders to this post thread thus far could address the issue in person, but we could do little than point out other concerns in only a written discourse. Please feel free to contact me, or perhaps other qualified TFG members for detailed advice.

Regards,

jay

Hi MBE,

First let me apologize before hand it my reply sounds curt, it is not aimed at you, but at some of the work that I am observing in the first two photos.

Timbeal wrote: "This begs the question what kind of contractor and engineering people are working on this project?"

I could not get past what I saw in the photos of the the work being done, and Timbeal's question above goes to the heart of this...

There is nothing to do about a twisted post in a vintage frame of this type, comprised of historical fabric, unless that frame member is presenting as compromised, which leads to why it was employed in the first place without the applicable restorative work performed first, and with proper "good practice in means, methods and materials," as it applies to the timber frame craft.

As an active participant in restoration timber framing, and traditional Barnwright, I would go further to add that whenever repurposing a vintage barn frame, the use of "large steel brackets" and "we will fix with "liquid wood" as per structural engineer recommendation," indicates dilettante skill set.

Rebuilding vintage wood with epoxies,structural adhesives, and/or internal reinforcements is a very specific skill set, and should only be executed by a seasoned Timberwright and/or under the guidance of a PE with a historical timber framing experience, especially if the structural member is going to be subjected to any of the moment of inertia a timber frame can receive from seismic, weather, or functional load events.

I DO WANT to be helpful, but the scope of your challenge is not going to be effectively addressed here in this forum through simple dialogue. There is just too many mitigating circumstances to consider. I have faith that most of the responders to this post thread thus far could address the issue in person, but we could do little than point out other concerns in only a written discourse. Please feel free to contact me, or perhaps other qualified TFG members for detailed advice.

Regards,

jay

Hey Jay, I think sometimes it's better to go easy on the judgmental critique and try to get to the questioners thinking and bias, there is a heavy demand for an answer behind MBE's question, in a very clueless bossmanish manner. My personal goal in posting here is to impart how to think about the problem at hand and not provide some pat answer. So it is up to MBE to think it through, because he controls the factual evidence, I literally know only what is provided. If MBE continues to insist that he is only concerned with the post between the brackets and the floor, then he, wittingly or not, is putting us on.