Hewing White Pine Logs

So I have successfully finished my first timber frame. As I'm sure many of you can imagine, I now have the timber frame bug and am ready for my next project. Which brings me to my question(s):
I have access to 3 larger (~60' tall) white pines that are currently standing and are going to be removed for a friends new garage. I would like to try my hand at hand hewing these logs for timbers to be used as the frame for a sauna. From what I have read it is better to hew a green log vs. a dry log. Is this true, and if so, how dry is to dry? Unfortunately I can't start this project for another year but it seems like a waste to not use these trees. I have a lot more questions, but hopefully this will get the discussion started.

Thanks!

Congrats on your first frame!
Green would be better but after a year pine is still very workable. Just make sure your using a sharp hewing axe, Gransfors Brunks makes a good one. Good luck. BB

Not sure where you'ld find a body of water in MN but you could pond the logs until you're ready to hew them, otherwise seal the ends and strip the bark to keep the beetles from turning them into swiss cheese. If you're going to hew a 'dry' log then white pine is probably better than most.

Great, it looks like I'm going to have the trees down this spring and will work them next spring so that should work out. I was planning on sealing the logs with Anchor Seal (I have a bit left over from my first project).
After the trees are down, sealed, and debarked, would it be better to cover the logs with tarps or just let mother nature do what she does?
I was looking at the Gransfors axe so I guess I'm heading in the right direction with that. As for ponding the logs, I like that idea, but I'm not entirely sure about the logistics of how I'd do that.

Hey Wet Blanket here
In most states ponding logs will require permits from your environmental agency. I think that is why most yards went over to sprinklers.

Bob :p

That's certainly a concern, especially if you are a commercial outfit...

When it comes to tarping the logs I'd fly the tarp above them so as not to promote decay by trapping moisture against the logs. Basically you want to keep them protected from direct sun and fast drying (especially on one side only). Also keep them up off the ground so air can flow below the log as well as above it.

An alternative might be finding (or creating) a large tank to "pond" them in. I know of a couple of 'hobby' sawyers that are doing that. With a tank it's fairly simple to chain down the logs so they remain completely submerged.

Hello Ranger,

I'm curious to hear more of your plans for the sauna. It's on my list, too. I've oscillated between a small frame and hewing logs for a more traditional solid log Finnish sauna.

I posted something on here a while back looking for ideas on a frame sauna, and no one posted with experience of such.

I'm thinking solid log to get away from modern insulation and yet still have decent R value. Now whether or not I hew all those logs, well that's between me and my chiropractor.

Zach

Hey Ranger. Howzit goin' eh?

I built a TF sauna about 10 years ago, when I was still an amateur. I did my drawings by hand back then, but I scanned a posted them a while back. They're still lurking on my web site, but I don't think they're linked in. You'll need to go directly there:

Clark\'s Sauna Plans

I'd do some things differently today, like make the tenons longer, but for such a small structure, it's fine. On the pieces I named the 'bent plate' (should be called the tie beam), I cut the ends at 45 because the stock I had for rafters wasn't long enough to reach the foot otherwise. I'd square that off if I was doing it again.

I would strongly warn you against leaving any white pine beams exposed on the interior of your sauna. Hot sap stuck to bare skin ... need I say more?

White cedar is really pretty, and you shouldn't have any trouble finding that in your neck of the woods. Maybe the pine pieces can be used in a changing room area?

Good luck with your project. CB.

Hey daiku!

Thanks for posting your plans. To be honest I haven't gotten this far down the process yet, but had thought about a similar size and construction. I definitely want to avoid directly exposing the pine in the sauna for the same reason you stated. I'll look into the white cedar as well, I haven't used that before.

Zach, as for my plans on finishing, I'm going to go with post and beam, but I'm still unsure with how I want make the walls. I've been reading a Sauna book by Rob Roy and looking into cordwood walls, and I've also thought about stick built walls. Doing cordwood walls does have one advantage for me in that my wife likes the look of them and would like to help build the walls if we end up going that route!

I'm working on an arbour in white cedar today. It is lovely wood and goes outside or inside, but it will keep you humble as it is difficult to cut with the chisel. Saw everything you can, I found myself doing some electric chainsaw brushing rather than risk tear-out with the adze.... If you can find cedar that has less knots, you will have more fun cutting the joints.

I would agree with all advice given. I would not remove all the bark , just strips and seal. if you cover keep it loose as suggest bearlier. a year shouldn't make too much differense in hardness. I'd hew in winter if I had a choice. Are your logs knotty or clear? It would make a diff. how I would hew them.

Timbo,

I don't believe that it's going to be that knotty, but I've certainly been known to be wrong before. What kind of differences between knotty vs. clear, in terms of hewing, are you talking about.
BTW, hewing in the winter would actually be a great option for me, but I wasn't sure if that would be harder/easier. Thanks for the info!

Ranger

Remember to cut down the trees before the sap runneth up! That means cut immediatly or you have to wait until next winter.

Clear pine is almost fun to hew. Knotty pine is .....not. When you make your juggle cuts/notches you need to put one notch on each side of each knot or you'll get tear out (or in). I'll probably get hate mail for this but I cheat. You see I'm a cheap bastard and don't like making 2 cord of kindlin wood per beam so I take and mill the logs down to about an 1" heavy on all faces , and then hew to near fin dimensions. HEW IMMEDIATLY AFTER MILLING. If you let them dry don't bother trying to hew ( drawshave ). I hew in a non tradional method but the procedure is about the same. chalk a line ,cut juggle notches, split off juggles, broadaxe, optional adzing. I've found I end up with a beam that has a more subtle hewn fin. but has alot less knot tear-out. If your interested I'll share my tools and tech. forhewing next time I'm on. If any one else has any hew tricks I'd be interested in hearing them. Back is killing me Timbo out

The plan is to cut down the trees very soon but with this rapid warm up, maybe it would be better sooner rather than later.
Timbo, thanks for info on how you hew you logs. Especially the part about how you deal with knots. Thanks for all the information that you all have provided, I really appreciate it!

If you can’t drop ‘em till the weekend, girdle them today… though if your neck is anything like here sap was barely “down” this winter, every little bit helps.

Just fell them before the bugs are back out

And do peel them entirely, any missed, is an invitation to both borers and bluestain

Greetings all. Been here on the sidelines following this along, and would be interested to hear more about what Timbo's (or anybody's) reasons might be for only removing some of the bark upon felling.

Steve

Hi Ranger, and everyone else, great thread, and one close to my heart.

I too have been on the sidelines, getting a handle on all the suggestions put forward.

For many years I demonstrated and taught the art of Traditional hewing, and it always happened in the hot season right through till fall. In the old logging camps the season for logging and hewing was winter--big time--so we really are trying to do something that would normally not be done by the old timers --period--hew in the heat!!

We floated our logs in the mill pond to discourage those evil bugs, but they still managed to chew on the upper exposed parts. Hewing as everyone knows makes no use of the outside of the log, it all ends up in the scrap pile anyway. One thing that floating does is keep the moisture level high in the log so that the hewing process is easier and leaves a nice finish.

Long logs take a while to square up especially if you are working in the heat of the summer, from one day to the next the dry air will start to split the finished surface as you work around the log. I always kept the upper or finished surface, covered with a 1" board to shield it at the end of each day. Upon finishing the hewing process the timber went into an open storage shed until needed.

Without a means to float the logs, I suggest using a fire hose to wet them down thoroughly once a week, and shielding from the direct sun's rays.

One of the suggestions from the posts before me was to run them through a mill to bring them down to 1" oversize, not a bad idea in my books, it would remove the sapwood layer that the bugs like, and them pile them indoors, and try and keep them as green as possible. It is hard to beat floating them in some kind of a bath

NH

The bark acts as a moisture barrier. By removing strips you allow moisture escape slowly(reducing checking). This can be done relativly easily as I've discribed in previos post. I do admit removing all the bark would be better, if precaution mention by NH are preformed as well. Pine is notorious for blue stain and borers. To do the logs soon would be best. If thats not an option open the bark to let them breath and roll the pile occasionly so the sun does beat on the top of the pile and blue stain doesn't attach the moist under belly.

be careful around the knots- perhaps use a chainsaw and score in front, behind, and if it's big right over the knot. not traditional, but fast and accurate. you can basically cut out all the knots and have clear hewing.

i personally think the gransfor double bevelled broadaxe is kind of little for hewing big trees. a bigger finnish style axe will get you down the log faster and makes a flatter face straight away. plus if the ground is uneven, branches, chunks of wood etc the path is always smooth for walking on the log. plus easier on the back. the gransfor axe does put a nice 'axey' kind of surface on the timber, and is useful as a last pass for cleaning up scoring marks.

kiitos for the sauna plans! i agree with what has been said about pine in saunas- it will drip sap prety much forever. a friend has a beautiful 20 year old timber-framed sauna out of white pine and you've got to watch where you sit!

one other little thing that i've noticed is that there's less tear out if you chop at the knots kind of gentle like. it's tempting to really whack at it because it's hard, but it's important to cut through the knot, keeping chopping at the edge of the cut opened up, even if it seems like slow progress.