Veritas MKII and DMT stones :)

I just got a Veritas MKII and a DMT Duosharp fine/x-fine stone today and I am very happy with the results. I had been hand stoning my plane and shave irons by hand on 2x6 inch natural stones but wasn't doing to great with them. The DMT "stones" are 4x10 inches and give you a ton of room to work. The Veritas MKII has a new angle finding fence on it that really sets the iron up perfectly. If anyone is in the market for a sharpening system, I would give this some thought. The bigger DMTs are a bit expensive at $120, but they stay flat all the time and won't need to be dressed like a waterstone.

Dave

I have some small DMT "stones" that I use for sharpening corner chisels. I agree with Dave that the waterstones are a pain as they need to be flattened. They're also expensive and messy. We use the old sandpaper method for chisels, slicks, planer blades, etc:



Just a big piece of plate glass with 9 different grits of sandpaper mounted with spray adhesive. Grits are from 220 up to 2000. You get the finer grits at the auto parts store, they use them for auto body paint. Since there are so many grits, you don't need to spend much time on each one. Just a dozen strokes each on the front and back, then move to the next grit. If they tear or wear out, just glue down another 25 cent sheet. A lot cheaper than 9 waterstones. Our station is always set up next to the Tormek, so it's really easy to freshen up your edge. CB.

That's a very nice setup daiku. I was thinking of doing something similiar with a granite surface plate. The x-fine DMT is 9 microns, about equal to a 2000 grit water stone. I was thinking of getting one 8000 waterstone to finish honing. I also may be getting a proprietary stone from someone I know that is even better than that, but we'll see.

Dave

Dave:

Note that the grit ratings on stones and sandpaper are not compareable. 2000 grit sandpaper feels like... paper. You can't see or feel the abrasive. It creates a mirror surface on metal. Also, it's critical that the base be as flat and smooth as possible. While the granite will certainly not flex, it will probably have a lot of small pits, even when polished. I know my kitchen countertop does, anyway. Maybe a piece of glass (smooth) on top of a piece of granite (flat and stiff)? CB.

Granite surface plates are found in machine shop tool rooms. They are usually flat to at least .0005 inch, and can be much more. The easiest way to compare abrasives is to compare the particle size in microns. The x-fine DMT is 9 microns, as is the 2000 Japanese, and 4/0 emery cloth. The japanese stones have the finest grain structure that I am aware of, a 10,000 Japanese stone is .3 microns. Do you know which system your papers are rated in? I like the idea of having inexpensive paper that I can just toss when it's used up.

Dave

I have a couple of big DMT stones, too that I'm really happy with. They were pricey, but I've abandoned the water stones and even sandpaper because, as the ads claim, good diamond stones cut a lot faster. I like the course combo stone, too, blue and black, if my memory serves me. Great for really removing some steel, if you have to. And darned good for axes, by the way.

In extreme cases and for planer knives (with the handy jig) I like my ancient Makita 300 grit power wetstone. It'll get a chisel suprisingly close ready to use.

Best,
Zach

Dave:

I'll stand corrected on the granite. The only stuff I've seen close up is my kitchen counter. I assume that like anything else, there's a range of quality and precision to be had. If it's good enough for machinists, then it ought to be good for sharpening, eh? Now that I think about it, sharpening and machining sound kind of similar...

Which system my paper is rated in? I guess I really don't know. The coarse grits I just pick up at the hardware store. The finer stuff at the auto parts store (a little more expensive). It's all 3M, wet or dry silicon carbide. I once had an isntructor tell me that the grit system is different than for stones. That's all I can tell you. It sounds like you know more about it that I do. CB.

Wikipedia to the rescue:

Sandpaper Chart

This seems to indicate that my 2000 grit sandpaper has average grain size of 10 microns. So it does appear to be about the same as your 2000 Japanese. I wonder about the honing compound I put on the Tormek's leather wheel?

Also from Wikipedia:
Scary Sharp

I first heard about this method on the old usenet back in the day, as described in the wiki article. I found the wiki article as a link from the waterstones page :-) CB.

My sharpening setup.

I use my diamond stone to flatten the wheel on the Makita sharpener. The extra wheel on the shelf is a green stone (120 grit) from Highland Hardware . Really nice for the big nicks and doesn't get hot like the belt sander. The old sink works great for the sharpener as they can make a real mess sometimes. Overflow from the sharpener drains into the barrel under the sink.


Note. No, I don't use Becks instead of water. I am planing to use the can (a souvenir from the Russell Colbath Rendezvou) for a warm water reservoir, my well water is really cold. Tom

I use a Tormek for grinding and 3M's micro abrasive film on the cast iron tables of my jointer for honing and polishing. The micro abrasive film is adhesive backed and available in grits down to 3 microns.

Nyuk Nyuk. What else do you have up there on the top shelf/windowsill? Nice set up. I find we sharpen a lot more often when there's a dedicated station always set up for it. CB.

Daiku, I think this is what you are refering to....



Official Drink of Stumpkin Carvers.

Why does one need 16 different grid paper/stone to hone chisels?

I am so spoiled by my Tormek, I have never and do not want to try anything else. Sharpen the chisels and then hone on the leather wheel with honing paste. You can hold a piece of paper and take your chisel and slice right through it. Done within 3 minutes for 10 chisels, even when they have a mountain landscape on them before I start.

Which mountains? The Alps, or the Berkshires?

Dave

PS, I like the look of the Makita type sharpeners, I prefer flat ground to hollow.

I had problems with the Makita grinder keeping my bevel even and 90 degrees to the body of the chisel, but I only worked with it very briefly.

I use the Makita wetstone freehand to grind and with a hard felt wheel and buffing compound to polish. When working if I feel a loss of edge I hit the felt wheel for five seconds to bring back the razor edge.

Dave,

the Alps
Always hurts to drop a sharp chisel just to see all those indentations. But then again a few minutes on the Tormek and it is all good again.

Inspirational!

Howdy,

Well, different strokes for different folks. That's the beauty of keeping your tools sharp.

As for tequila, I stay away from aqave products. That 90 degree mental back bevel isn't good for stick framing, let alone timberframing.

Zach

Only for for final honing, to remove the jagged wire edge that develops at the end of day.

one tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor!

Daiku,
It looks like I am going to use your method. After coming back from my timber framing class last week, I know I need to properly sharpen my chisels. I'm a little short on cash so your glass and paper method looks like a cost effective alternative. Can you be a little more specific regarding the grits? 220 is pretty coarse, but I may start there to flatten the back of my chisels (old TH Witherby's). What adhesive do you use to adhere the paper to the glass? I have 3m super 77 spray adhesive on hand. Also, I assume that you are also using water on the paper (dumb question I know)? Finally, when flattening the back of the chisel, do you stroke straight back and forth, or criss cross(angle 30 degrees one way, then 30 degrees the other way)?
One more question, after 2000 grit, do you do anything else?
Thank you,
Brad

Hi Brad.

I use the 3M 77. If it builds up, a safety razor scrapes it off the glass. Make sure the glass is thick enough not the deform too much when you apply pressure. We glued ours down to a castoff melamine countertop slab that we made into a dedicated sharpening table. Its a big piece of glass so we can have many grits all available at one time. Yes, 220 is prety coarse, and you don't need to "go back" that far every time you hone. I usually don't use that grit except right off the tormek. And right off the tormek is the only time the paper gets wet. I usually just go at it dry. I usually just go back and forth (in the same direction as the handle). After the finest grit, I'll strop it on the tormek's leather wheel.

So, each time I hone, I "go back" a little further on the grits. At first, just a quick touchup on the stopping wheel, then the last couple of grits of sandpaper and strop, etc. When it starts to get "rounded over", then I'll go "all the way back" and put a fresh hollow grind on it with the tormek.

For peace of mind: Every time you go too steep and tear up a sheet of sandpaper, remind yourself how expensive the waterstones are :-)