Shingles, shakes, le coutre

Hello,

Is it worth starting up a whole new topic it could be asked? Maybe the "Axe" topic would have sufficed, there is plenty of room down there. Anyway, I'm just getting myself familiar with the use of this French thing - no English equivalent I am aware of for it - as part of the shingle prep phase and roofing operation. trimming shingles

Techniques and tool set-up are unknown unknowns at this point. Information, hard to come by. Experimenting with different bevel angles, handle configurations that kind of thing.

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

I imagine that your searches would have already revealed this:
http://outils-anciens.xooit.fr/t1172-Queue-dhttp://outils-anciens.xooit.fr/t1172-Queue-d-hirondelles.htm-hirondelles.htm

But in case they didn't, there it is! I've not tested Google Translate (I speak French) but if you need any help with the discussion, let me know. As best as I can tell it's used as a heavy plane (or slick) to smooth off the roughness left by the départoir (Froe). It is lancé (lit. thrown) so I suspect that your usage is correct as it's used a bit like an axe. According to one of the users it is sharpened to a single bevel, but I'm not sure if that should be bevel in, or bevel out.

Hello Jon, How is the house work coming?

I had tried out the translate program on that one site you reference and have to say it works really well with the French, maybe not surprising. The discussion went over the fishtail form but I think it was a bit in the abstract and the conclusion maybe wrong because in my usage I have to conclude that the fishtail facilitates sharpening what is otherwise a very awkward piece of iron by allowing you to jam a point into you're chopping block to steady one end. I'm doing a lot of sharpening you see in connection with figuring out the good bevel angle.

So far between a hatchet, drawknife and coutre I find this to be pretty effective and efficient given that it is a right handed tool and I am left handed, I have no further experience with this tool, it was and is in pretty marginal condition despite hours lapping, grinding, filing, sharpening, handeling en so forth. Better to have gotten one new from the smidt all in all. Despite my complaints however I am pleased to have another axe on hand.

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

House work is getting faster as you'd expect. Would have been raising another two posts today, but it was rained off. Should happen tomorrow with a bit of luck.

One interesting suggestion regarding the fishtail was that the user (while seated) could hook the next piece of wood without having to move. There was also some debate of the purpose of the wooden handle and how they were actually used.

My latest toy, which I'll post about at some point, is a demi-bisaïgue, or pontache. The Franco-German answer to the slick. It's basically a long, wide chisel of all metal construction with a handle mounted perpendicular to the chisel body. Traditionally used for cleaning up mortises and tenons. It's certainly proved a lot easier to use than my 50mm chisel, although it's weight requires a little more strength!

Hi Jon,

Yeah, a rainy day up here too, but in fact it was a welcome break. Only thing is it revealed a leak or two out there in the barn that now will need repairing first thing. One good thing about a new house is that you can address things like that in the proper order, as you soon will.
I was skeptical about that hooking claim in regard to the function of the fish tail on the coutre. It seemed like a speculation of someone who has never had one in hand and put it to use, though I'm not trimming barrel staves which may make the difference. But that, "while seated" is definitely a reference to technique. I missed that part about the handle, but from some of the pictures it is seemingly straightforward.

There was some mention of the demi-bisaigue earlier here, that it was somewhat unwieldy in certain conditions. Maybe once you get used to the demi you can move onto the full. French carpenters seem to have a preference for all metal tools. I guess it comes from the blacksmith tradition there and even now.

All the best with those next two posts.

Oh yeah, will you be going to the Frame event that will be in France this year?

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

Is the demi-besaigue not the same as the German Stichaxt? If so, I love mine and find it a wonderful tool.

The German tool is used for a wide variety of tasks. Cleanup as mentioned, but also for paring, shaping, and fine tuning of timber dimensions. It is an invaluable tool when working with rough hewn timbers, and it really shines when you are doing the type of carpentry for which it is most suited.

@D L Bahler: The demi-bisaïgue is indeed a stichaxt (or stoßaxt). It's historically been used in the east of the country.

I already love mine, and I've not even finished sharpening it yet!

@Don: Didn't realise that there was an event in France this year. I'll take a look and find out if I can make it.

Hello,

Funny how one descriptive word can make a big difference:

"Throwing"!

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

:-)

I had a quick look and couldn't find any references to a Frame event in France. Who's organising it? Do you have a link to it?

Hi Jon,

I had come across the notice on the timber guild UK page but since that time they have reconstituted themselves on the world wide web and didn't transfer that information over to the new identity as far as I can see, just some bridge building project in Estonia. You will have to make some sort of contact or other with them there to see what it's all about in detail. Probably worth the effort I would think. timber frame guild but then UK

Hope it works out for you,

Don Wagstaff

ps Having whizzed through my stacks of riven sweet chestnut roof shingles, "throwing" the coutre for making them true, I am back up on the roof nailing them down with the hope that they will serve their due purpose.

Well I sent an email to the carpenters guild, and to the best of their knowledge the Frame France event has been cancelled. I'm meeting up with a local carpenter later in the week to show off what I've been doing (It's far from perfect, but I'm proud of it!) and to try and find out who's doing what locally and whom to speak to. Tempting as the compagnons de devoir is, I really don't have the ability to abandon my other half and spend the next 5 - 10 years touring France and learning the from the old masters (J.L. Valentin for example!).

Hello,

That's to bad really. You have a truly different model of that sort of thing there, than in the US for example, I call it the Strasbourg model, much more controlled and limited by the professionals. I hope that the organizers will get the chance to break through the barriers at some point for the sake of folk like you and me. There is one possibility short of the whole Tour de France option though and sort of along the lines of the American example and that is the courses through Dick in Metten, De. They do have some carpentry oriented programs if that interests you at all.

Well, to be fair, a little update on the shingle side of the discussion. Up till now it's gone from this,
to this,


With some of the steps in between:




It takes a lot considering all the double and tipple layering. The result with the sweet chestnut is a lot more lively and interesting and well, attractive compared to spruce or cedar shingles so even though I've come up a bit short I'll continue with the chestnut.

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff