Eastern White Pine vs Hardwood for Posts

Why does Jack Sobon insist on using hardwoods for the posts in his Build a Classic Timber-Framed House book?

Is it an issue of strength?

A 10" White Pine post would be a lot cheaper than an 8" Oak.

I don't know why. Several companies build entire frames out of any number of species: including white pine. It is important to remember the books we treat as gospel (Soban, Benson, and Chappell) were written some time ago by men still learning their craft. I have heard Tedd Benson say he regrets many things he said in his first book and I would posit that Jack might feel the same way.

My fun and my two scents: smell the fervor.
Bob

I can't say for sure, not being an engineer or architect, but I suspect that it has to do with keeping the posts within the designed dimensions (tie beams, girding beams and plates are all 8" width), while retaining enough strength for the joinery and to support the 2-story structure.

Jack has designed 3 frames that I have built, and his explanations about why he did certain things make a lot of sense after explanation, even if they weren't obvious to me at the start...

Cheers,
Dan

We use Eastern White Pine for all of our frames. Occasionally we'll use a stronger species for heavy beam loads. Our posts are typically 6x6, although several times a year we have to go to a 6x8 for special joinery conditions. For almost 30 years now we have been employing a combination of hardwood free tenon, hardwood pegs, glue, and EWP posts and timbers, all in 6" by X depth. Our frames have stood the test of time and engineering analysis. Of course this is not traditional joinery, but it allows us to build competitively with stick built homes, and we have many clients come back for second homes or additions.

I don't know what exactly was stated in that book. But I spent a day up at Jack's place last summer, and I can tell you he speaks very favorably of using white pine for timberframes, for many reasons. He manages and harvests materials from his own pine woodlot.

A huge plus with white pine (and tulip poplar for that matter) in my mind is stability. I have some wp and poplar 8x8s that have been sitting in my barn (until I get to them) for 2 years and they are square and true as the day they were cut.

His red book, the book with the garden shed, the plan is actually engineered/sized for pine timbers, so I am surprised if the other book demands hardwoods.

Hmmm,
Greg

Greg,

It is stated on pages 70 & 71 of his 1994 edition.

Marcus
Northern Vermont

You can almost always swap out one species for another. The question is, what is involved?

Sections become larger, or smaller, joinery may well change, and, aesthtic issues abound.

The House you are referring to was designed to meet a particular client's needs, as well as those of the builder / architect, obviously some consideration was given to make it suitable to be the centerpiece of the book.

As someone stated above, Jack is a versitle builder. He does not stick to any one species, any one Sizing. I would bear that in mind when looking to adapt his plan to your own needs; use it as a starting place, not neccesarily a destination.

If you were to hire Jack, it is extremely unlikely that you would end up with a House which would be identical to the one you are viewing, even should many of your needs overlap with those for whom the House in the book was designed.

If you, yourself, are unable, or uncomfortable, resizing and adapting the plans to your own needs,then, by all means, Do not hesitate for a moment to hire someone capable of doing so.

Why not just call him, and ask him yourself?

Hi all :
great conversation and good subject, and one that I have pondered myself many times over the years. But I think as you all probably know by now I refer back to buildings that have really stood the test of time like 150 to 200 years of wind, snow loads, earthquakes etc. A majority of the buildings around here in the north country, and I might add framed by settlers from the Eastern United States used Northern White pine predominantly for their frames, posts, plates, flooring--you name it. They easily withstood the loads exerted on them, and are still standing nice and straight. I have noticed some smaller buildings, like driveshed for instance that were framed entirely with white ash, in this case they were able to use smaller dimension timbers, and the appearance of the frames are really neat, and strong. But having said that I know from experience that hewing, and framing using the hard woods are tricky, time consuming, and you have to do it in the cooler weather to avoid warping and twisting. There is no mistake about it Pine is and was by far the #1 choice of timbers used for barns, houses, drivesheds used by the early timber framers, and these trees grew abundantly in most areas.
NH