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proper tagging and documenting #6341 05/10/02 02:46 AM
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m&m Offline OP
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Can anyone tell me what the proper procedure is for dismantling,tagging or numbering, documenting and re erecting a barn for a home conversion? Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks Mike

Re: proper tagging and documenting #6342 05/12/02 05:41 AM
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There is a carpentry numbering systemfor all the pieces of timbers in a timber frame.

Re: proper tagging and documenting #6343 05/12/02 06:08 AM
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It originated in the bluming times of timber framing in europe,way before America was discovered, and still is used today.
All timbers in a wall are numbered continuesly with roman numbers. ( I, II, III, IV etc.)This # is always on the left or bottom side of the timber.

All walls (gutter walls or walls length side with the house) get a " /" (dash ;1st wall : / 2nd: // 3rd wall : ///) behind the roman #

All gable walls get a nodge in the number. The 1st gable wall has one nodge, 2nd two etc.

First floor has only the numbers on the timber, 2nd gets a triangle behind the dash or the roman number with the nodge.3rd floor gets two triangles etc.

If there would be more walls across they could be marked with a square.

All marks should be carved in across the grain.

Re: proper tagging and documenting #6344 05/12/02 08:46 PM
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TTRAG has survey forms that will cover all the points.

My suggestions are to first understand the building. Learn the lay-out method, look for references and earmarking from chisels or race knife, and order of construction most easily seen with under scarf piece placed first and by reference reversal at the last wall.

Draw a plan and typical elevations, designate the timbers based on the original earmarks. If you don't see earmarking assign a system. The common american practice is usually a grid system with alphabetical and numerical cooridinates. Number the bents 1, 2, 3, etc., in construction raise 1 first. Along the gable label post lines alphabetically, place A at front.

You can make your tags at home out of flashing. A 1 x 2 strip is fine, with letter punches mark the tags.

Take down the building in reverse order, tag the timbers and mark reference side.

Good luck.

Re: proper tagging and documenting #6345 05/13/02 10:07 PM
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During the Cuvilly barn dismantling, Aaron used roofing washers for tagging the beams. The washers are about 2" in diameter (no hole) and look to be cut out of coated aluminum. We punched these with a letter/number set and used short screws for easy removal. The metal tags last much longer then lumber markers - just remember to remove them after re-assembly :rolleyes: .

Re: proper tagging and documenting #6346 05/14/02 10:48 PM
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Jim Rogers Online Confused
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Mike: In one sentence you've asked a question that has taken some men years of work and learning to get the answer to.
Recently I took a course put on by the guild that taught us how to make a drawing and measure a frame, tag the frame and then dismantle it. This course lasted two days, and we just scratched the surface, of all the different things you need to learn and understand. In July we will hopefully be repairing the damaged parts and re-assembling it in another town. If you have the time you should look into coming to the re-assembly process and learn from the men who are putting it on/together.
As part of the above mentioned project, we had a tour of some other barns, near by, that this same preservation company had been working on. There were two barns at this site. One was to be used as an office building for the owner and his wife. The preservation company was having trouble re-fitting this old barn to higher standards needed to comply with current building codes for it's intended use. The retro fitting was costing huge amounts of money, more than had been expected.
My first advice to you, about converting this barn into a home is, check with your building inspector or building department of the area in which you intend to re-assemble this frame, to see if they will allow it to be converted into a home. And what new standards that you might have to comply with in order to do just that.
A tagging and labeling system for the frame parts is pretty straight forward and isn't hard to learn.
Removing the pegs and not breaking them off, causing the need to drill out the hole, takes some skill.
Proper temporary bracing with new 2x construction grade stock to hold the frame together as it's un-assembled is a must to insure that the frame is not stressed out and tenons are broken. And of course for safety reasons.
Use of a crane to lift off parts in the reverse order in which it was assembled may be necessary , again to make it safe and not break any parts.
We saw a lot of timbers that were in a great deal of stress, and after they were released from the frame, some were twisted, and bowed.
Learning how to, or which part to, take off first is important. As one instructor said, “it's a giant puzzle and you've got to find the last piece put in/on and remove it first. And then continue in this reverse order until the frame is completely disassembled.” Understanding which piece was "last' may take some careful study of the frame. And then following the plan of un-assemble is very important. Good luck with your project, Jim


Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Re: proper tagging and documenting #6347 05/24/02 02:55 AM
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Thanks to all who answered my question. When you have the will but need to know the way it's good to know that someone who has both is willing to take the time to help a guy out. Mike

Re: proper tagging and documenting #6348 05/26/02 02:04 AM
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northern hewer Offline
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Hello all on this forum:

Just thought that I would put in a little input as far as taking down and numbering the frame. I had the occasion to diassemble a 50 by 100 foot turn of the century barn which was to be repaired and reassembled. The method we used was as follows: a draftsman drew up cross section plans of each bent, floor, purlin, and roof framing, that allowed us to record numbers as we dismantled the frame. We used blank plastic cattle ear tags on which we could insert numbers using a special indelible ink pen, and nailed them on each piece to be removed always nailing on areas previously agreed to and noted on the plans such as "upper side", "lower end", you can come up with your own workable plan. We used a crane to disassemble, and we removed the wooden pegs prior to the day of disassembly, putting in smaller smooth metal pins that would hold the frame together, but that could be pulled out easily to release sections. This cenario worked well for us I hope this helps you along in your endeavours,
NH

Re: proper tagging and documenting #6349 05/27/02 01:48 AM
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HELLO NORTHERN HEWER

Thanks for the great advise. That is about the same thing I had in mind. Is it advisable to get a draftsman or can I draw the bents out myself? I'm quite sure we live in the same neck of the woods and would love to speak to someone who has the same interests in person. You can reach me here or at mament@sprint.ca Thanks Mike

Re: proper tagging and documenting #6350 05/27/02 01:48 AM
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HELLO NORTHERN HEWER

Thanks for the great advise. That is about the same thing I had in mind. Is it advisable to get a draftsman or can I draw the bents out myself? I'm quite sure we live in the same neck of the woods and would love to speak to someone who has the same interests in person. You can reach me here or at mament@sprint.ca Thanks Mike

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