Hello fellow timber framers. I have a question for you all.

I have a potential client who's been surfing the web and stumbled upon Vermont Frames. He told me about them and the kits they offer along with their prices. He asked me for a comparison quote. I don't know if I can be as affordable. I was surprised at how affordable they are.

My question is, are these prices real? Or is there more here than meets the eye? I did a little figuring and some of these kits range around $17, $19, $21 per sf. These seem to be very low figures to me. If that's the case maybe I should be building sheds for Home Depot because they offer a 16' x 24' gambrel roof, conventional stud frame shed for $12,868.00. That's 384 sf which comes to about $33.51 per sf.

The link to the site he was looking at is here: http://www.vtframes.com/timber_frame_designs.php

Those Vermont prices do look low to me...
Has your client actually been in one of your frames, and one of the Vermont Frames?
buying the cheapest stuff is not always the way to go.

Barry, I wouldn't call the prices miss leading, but who is finishing these $20/sqft buildings and what is the next phase of construction cost. Read the fine print, the owners are responsible for crane services and some misc. other stuff. What are you including and what are they including in the sqft pricing. I can knock my pricing down as well if I drop this and that, and come out below the quotes. Take shipping from the shop to the site. I include this in the price, as well standing the frame and it's cost. They are braking this down. If you want this it cost a little more and more and more.

Further more, I looked at what your site shows and the Vt site and you two are totally different. You could say comparing apples and oranges. My work differs from yours and everyone else. It is like a painter, they are all painting different scenery and using different methods to achieve a picture or in our cases a building. It is up to the client to view the work, if they choose and make a decision. I recently lost a frame due to the time restraints put on the job by the client. They wanted to use local work but at the same time need it to happen, so they make it happen.

I once heard someone say they get 1 job out of 20 inquires, this was a larger outfit. I, on average, get 1 job in 2-3 inquires. How about the rest of you?

Tim

LOTS of tire kickers here in Central Ontario. 1 job in 20 inquiries sounds good to me. I'm moving to Maine.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Tim--

One in 2 or 3? you, my friend, have a very good thing going. Is it all word of mouth?

Gable, it is all word of mouth. I have never in 16 years paid for advertising. I am a small operation. Three frames this year. I just raised the last one for the year. Down East Maine is a rural community. There is a couple of other framing operations starting up in town, but as I commented earlier, I believe each shop has a different approach which should end in a different product. I think population is the reason for the difference in numbers. There is the occasional frame which comes in from out of the area. Three that I know of, one of which I could not meet the schedule. The other two most likely didn't know I exist. Does that mean I have 50% of the market of frames? Then figure in the conventional builders, in numbers, I move way down in the market. I also feel I am working at my maximum. I saw all my own stock as well. Certain aspects after the frame is farmed out.

Tim

Do you design/biuld? do you build the whole project or just the frame?

Yes, design/build. Most move along into the finishing stages. I have only done 3 or 4 frame only structures.

We have had some real challenging weather on top of the remote site with this last frame. Tonight, I had my trailer in tow, there is a series of ponds in the road the temp is in the single numbers and the ice is not thick enough to hold a vehicle. I knew something was dragging back out the 4 miles of dirt road, but it really yelled when I hit the pavement. A rear tire on the trailer was frozen. Just one of many adventures this past week. We used two gin poles, the prevalent knot is a bowline because they untie well after a load has been placed on them. Most knots had to be beat with a leather mallet and wooden block to free them up.

My server is having problems so we are lagging. I have tried photos in the "whatcha doing" thread with no success. I'll keep trying.

Tim

Hi Barry;

I helped stand a VT frame up near where I live in Maine. They set one person with the frame for a limited amount of time. The rest of the crew and crane were provided by the owner. The joinery was good.

Tim hit the nail on the head. It all revolves around what services are included in the price.

Jim