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Re: Brace Layouts [Re: Raphael D. Swift] #20994 08/27/09 02:14 PM
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bmike Offline
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Originally Posted By: Raphael D. Swift
Originally Posted By: mo
hey jonah,
<snip>
But for the life of me, I have never gotten any response to the topic, "As your angle changes from 45,45,90 what happens to the resistance of forces"


Short answer: As the brace becomes more vertical it resists floor load (vertical load) more and wracking forces less.


Not sure I'd agree with that... the load paths become different - but putting in a horizontal 3,4,5 brace will put the brace further out into the floor load path than the vertical 3,4,5 brace. And again - the load path for each load (racking vs. floor) is changed, altering the picture of how they work.

(And as an aside - I wouldn't count on a brace to resist floor loading - I'd make sure my timber is sized correctly to begin with.)

With the exception of extreme angles - both resist racking - but by taking slightly different paths.



Remember too that braces can also act as crowbars - a brace in tension with typical short stubby tenons is nearly useless - a brace in compression can pull a timber from a post if the post to beam joinery is weak or ill designed and the racking loads overwhelm the structure.




I'm a fan of altering timber heights when possible (not so easy in 'home' construction where floors like to be all on the same level) - or altering brace length. If you want to simplify things you can make 1 length for bents, 1 for walls or sections.

Typically I'll work with 2-3 sizes - larger braces up to ridges or purlins (no head knocking issues and they look silly so small tucked up in the roof system), medium sized for plates / posts (again, where window / door or head issues aren't a problem) and small(ish) on the interior / circulation where folks are always walking / using the space.


Mike Beganyi Design and Consulting, LLC.
www.mikebeganyi.com
Re: Brace Layouts [Re: bmike] #20995 08/27/09 04:55 PM
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TIMBEAL Offline
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I am pretty much with you on that Mike. As you say the shorter braces can begin to act as pry bars, I try to make all braces longer than shorter. Chuck the window layout out the window. I suppose if one is using stress skins he can omit more bracing, or all of it!

"I'm a fan of altering timber heights when possible (not so easy in 'home' construction where floors like to be all on the same level) - or altering brace length. If you want to simplify things you can make 1 length for bents, 1 for walls or sections." This would be difficult to follow, for me, I would want to be paid extra to change brace lengths in that situation.

Tim

Re: Brace Layouts [Re: TIMBEAL] #20996 08/27/09 09:03 PM
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bmike Offline
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Originally Posted By: TIMBEAL
This would be difficult to follow, for me, I would want to be paid extra to change brace lengths in that situation.

Tim


Not sure why... layout it layout is layout, no?
What is your thinking on this? Room for error?

I designed a cottage for a friend - all the braces were different... wink

Hope he builds it someday. Property is there. The trees have been growing. The lake isn't going anywhere...


Mike Beganyi Design and Consulting, LLC.
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Re: Brace Layouts [Re: bmike] #20997 08/27/09 11:44 PM
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TIMBEAL Offline
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K.I.S.S.

Why make it more complicated than necessary?

It is one thing to design and another to build, it appears. All the braces were different. In which way and why?

Tim

Re: Brace Layouts [Re: TIMBEAL] #20998 08/28/09 01:29 AM
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johninnh Offline OP
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Thanks Tim,

It is a 6" x 4" brace with a 2" wide mortice & tenon, 30" rise/run. The tenon is housed, 3" deep. The post is 7" x 7". I am using a 1" peg.

On the tie I intend to use a shouldered mortice/tenon and the top plate will have a single 1.5" x 5" mortice/tenon.

Questions are good!

John


Re: Brace Layouts [Re: johninnh] #21004 08/28/09 10:19 AM
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TIMBEAL Offline
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More questions to expand on. Is this rough stock or surfaced? How big (width, length, height at eve) is the building? Clear span or a post in the middle? How far along on this project are you?

Tim

Re: Brace Layouts [Re: TIMBEAL] #21005 08/28/09 11:19 AM
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bmike Offline
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Originally Posted By: TIMBEAL
K.I.S.S.

Why make it more complicated than necessary?

It is one thing to design and another to build, it appears. All the braces were different. In which way and why?

Tim


Tim - ignoring my extreme case - why would having 2 or 3 different brace lengths incur higher costs? In many cases different lengths can solve joinery collision issues and make assembly and raising a smooth task.

And yes - it is a different thing to design and build. I have done both. wink

The frame I mentioned was to be reclaimed out of all sorts of random timber. The plates were skewed against the plan - each timber was unique, and the entire plan was skewed on the site. We were looking to echo a Wharton Eschrick spirit in the place as it sat amongst sagging ridge and other funky added on to lakeside cottages . The braces were all variants of a 345. When I get back to the office I'll see if I can find a sketchup pic.

And - you'd have to define 'necessary'. There are many things that can go into a design other than the efficiency of the joinery - no? (And I'll leave it there...)

wink


Mike Beganyi Design and Consulting, LLC.
www.mikebeganyi.com
Re: Brace Layouts [Re: TIMBEAL] #21007 08/28/09 02:56 PM
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johninnh Offline OP
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Rough Stock. Building (Post to Post) is 11'W x 8'L with 4' overhang at each end. Single pitch roof, eve is 11' on one side, 8.5' on the other. Clear span.

I have the stock delivered already and have been working on the posts.

Thanks

Re: Brace Layouts #24044 07/12/10 10:26 PM
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mo Offline
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Howdy Everybody,

Thought I would bump this one.


Last edited by mo; 07/12/10 10:27 PM.
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