Mike,

I would not sue. It would be an absurd waste of my energy, time, money, and life. The larger issue for me is not intellectual property or protecting my rights. I am just trying to keep someone from wasting my time and then handing the work I've just done for free for them to someone else to give them a headstart against me while I wonder what just happened.

Right off the bat, they can be cheaper because they get to quote something without having to 1) meet with the client and have a detailed conversation about the project, 2) turn that into a design concept, or 3) draw the concept in such a way as to be presentable to the client. They are several hundred dollars ahead of me right out of the gate -- all because of the free work I just did. That's what gets my goat.


That's why I like the idea of putting a "fence" up. If someone strolls into my yard, that's one thing, but if they jump my fence in order to do that, that's another. Fences do keep honest people honest, but they also keep the laziest dishonest people looking for an easier mark.

Securing the pdf may be more of a psychological barrier that reminds the average person that what is in that file is not for them to go sharing around with other companies. I'm sure someone with more chops than me could easily hack it, but that's not really the point. Actively dishonest people are not really what this thread is about. All you can do about them is try like crazy to avoid them.

Agreed. We are on the same page, just using different language to get there.

Fences and filters are good in this biz. If you've got a feeling in your gut - stick with it. It is likely not to let you down.

I would almost feel honored if someone took a preliminary drawing and build it. When I drove by it I could say to myself I was part of that and it only took 2 hours.

As time with a client advanced I would know I had the job before I invested too much time which was then lost. I either have a partial payment or I "know" what the outcome will be. There is always exceptions where thing just don't go the way anticipated. Sometimes you just have to let things go.

I am sure I live in a different environment building wise than most. Less competition, a smaller population to name a few. If a client was to shop here in my area I know who the work would be going to and would welcome the work any which way it went. I have seen larger companies come into the area from away, I would rather see it go to my local competitor. I typically build with in a 40 mile radius.

Just a few thought on this. The court system is the pits.

I am drawing with pencil and paper as you all know, too. And recently I have added the compass/dividers.

Tim

Not really on the same topic but having to do with a client. How would you feel if you sawed almost all the timbers on your sawmill and cut all the joinery for a very large barn/home and then saw on your client's website that the barn was constructed by him and his family and friends.

I agree with you Ken. And like Mike says: it's impractical to keep folks that want to cheat from cheating. And the client really may not know any better. But other framers should. I'm hoping that the framers who get to see my drawings will realize what's happening, do the right thing, and give me a call. Nothing yet, though. Meanwhile, I'm fairly confident things will go my way in the end. CB.

I agree that clients unknowingly will shop plans from another shop. I also know that some builders will knowingly shop drawings by cutting of title blocks and other identifying markings. I get around most of this by adding a big fat ugly non removable water mark diagonally across the drawing with the company name. They can then shop but the other timber frame company's will know where the drawings came from and can call. IF I get a set of timber frame drawings from a prospective client and know or feel that they belong to another company I call them and ask if #1 if the client ones the rights to shop around or #2 can they buy the rights. If the answer is no then I tell them that we can design a frame from scratch using our own design ideas or they can go somewhere else. Most folks are understanding and are grateful that they are dealing with a company with ethics. One of our competitors ended up in a law suit over copyright issues. I don't know how it ended up but I'm sure that is was expensive after the lawyers were finished.

I agree with what bmike says, it's good to develop your gut instincts. Very valuable tool.

Well I guess I would take it to mean that the owner considered me his friend.

Client equals Pay. Friends probably saved him/her money. Cool..

Still thinking about this thread. What if we could sketch it for them in 5 minutes? Sketching is a valuable tool. I would like to be better. still practicing.

Mo,

Which is more valuable -- 5 minutes of highly skilled time or 2 hours of fumbling around?