i just finished steve chappell's "a timber framer's workshop" and am feeling daunted just enough to consider gusset plates and carriage bolts as a back up plan.

i figured this would be the place to get that idea picked apart.

Yikes!

Steve would be horrified to hear that you came to this conclusion because of his work.

Likewise, the Guild was created in part to address this.

Where would you like to begin?
What's daunting?

Let's see who else jumps in.

Gusset plates and bolts?
Well, be sure to calculate the diameter of the bolts, vs. the relationship to the strength of the species you plan on using. Then how many bolts? Lots of small ones? Or a few big ones? How close to the end can you get them without compromising the structure? Will they be in single shear or double? How will you control for shrinkage? Will the shrinking wood hang on the bolts? How will you handle wood that is different thicknesses? Pack out the plates with more steel? (ie, a 8x8 post with a 6x8 brace or strut) How thick will the steel be? What grade? Will you fabricate it? Or have someone do it for you? You going to draw up all that steel so they can cut it up and drill it? Have you looked at the cost of steel lately? Blah Blah Blah.

Traditional timber framing is not that difficult and has a pretty low cost to entry for DIY projects if you plan on using hand tools. Can you take a class? Visit a local shop? Attend a workshop? Pick up some other books from the library?


Ask some questions. Lots of helpful folks here.

well, of course joinery is daunting, like any new skill, but that just takes practice.

at present from a design perspective i'm hung up on:

>how the frame meets the foundation, given a slab foundation do the sills sit on top the slab or are they tied in somehow?
or is it preferable to set the posts in concrete?

it seems like the common practice is to lay them on top and then lay flooring on top the sills, which i'd like to avoid in order to take advantage of radiant floor heating run through the slab.

right now it seems like i'd need to lay the slab, set the frame, then lay down another layer of concrete (or similar) to house the radiant floor pipes right above the sills.

> the roof pitch of most TF homes is steeper than is necessary for the climate in kentucky. i understand a steeper roof adds longevity to the house, so is the pitch an extension of the basic design principals of timber framing or is there a mechanical reason, such as a lower pitched roof exerting more outward thrust on the posts?

>and while i feel like with the book and practice i could execute the designs in the back of the book, and could even figure out which members could be a bit longer. i'm not clear on how to figure in additions. specifically an 8ft deep wrap around porch on the highpost cape.

well, i hope that wasn't to big of a response. i've been sitting around with stacks of note books trying to to lay out a decently well thought out home, and finding this forum was very fortunate.

bmike, fine reality check there. thanks.

Why couldn't you form a stepped pad? It would require some knowledge of concrete forming, but it's not too hard.

What I mean is you have a step all the way around the outside of the pad for the sill to sit on, and then it goes up inside of the sill, rather than pouring a pad, setting the frame, and pouring another pad. If you'd do that you would have to have rebar sticking out of the bottom pad to tie in the new pad, and that would be awful to work around

like this:



OR, alternately, just have the sills above floor level. If you have a concrete pad with radiant heat, there is no need for a framed floor at all. And with a few minor adjustments, the sill can be above the floor level with no real problem (which would save you a few thousand dollars of concrete)

I have done slab on grade projects where the posts sit on the concrete slab (with a metal or treated wood stand off) so the owner could use radiant floor heat in the slab. The tubing for the radiant floor was placed prior to pouring the slab, so an additional topping was not needed. Be sure to insulate under the slab. We used metal straps cast into the foundation at the outside face of each perimeter post to anchor the frame to the foundation. The straps are then hidden when the exterior wall goes up. How close is grade in relation to the top of the slab? This can impact exactly what the perimeter detail would be as you don't want the wood to be in direct contact with ground. If it is too close, you may want to consider a concrete or block curb at the perimeter to keep the wood construction away from grade. Feel free to send me an email if you want to discuss this in more detail. Best of luck.

dlbahler, that's great... i think one of my mistakes was thinking that each bent had a beam across the floor parallel to the tie beamm but if it's just the sills then it can easily be handled with a landing and a step down inside the door

studio, i pretty sure i'm working under the same radiant floor plan you've seen installed. i'm not clear on the purpose of the metal stand off, to keep the heat from affecting the timber maybe? the grade is step enough that i'm cutting it back and installing a retaining wall with a back patio as buffer from soil and rain, but a curb is a good suggestion i haven't run across before, which is suprising given that we're looking at using strawbale for cladding and strawbale folks are pretty fearful of any kind of moisture.

i can't tell you all how pleased i am to find this forum, this link alone http://www.arlingtontimberframes.com/enclosure.htm answered the huge question for me of how to finish the roof.

thanks again!

The standoff is to keep the wood off the concrete. Typically building codes do not allow untreated wood to be in direct contact with concrete and want at least 1" separation. We call for either 1" metal standoff base or a treated 2x cut to the post size and screwed to the bottom. The treated 2x is a cheap way to handle things, though not pretty. If you are okay with putting base trim around the bottom of the post, you can cover up the 2x that way. The concern is untreated wood in direct contact with concrete will wick moister and cause the wood to rot.

This forum is a phenomenal place and an incredible resource. Good luck with your project.

If you are skipping the fat sills, which I would also recommend, if you are going with a slap foundation, and placing the sill-less post on the on the slab, make sure you have a substantial footing below the point load/post. In other words don't just put your post on a 4" thick slab. A monolithic slap should be in order. If you are using radiant tubes in the slab take extra precautions to know exactly where those tubes are, you will drill holes in them. Take good photos of the piping before the placement of the concrete and keep the pipes away from the post placement. Plans change and you may have to refer back to those precious pictures.

Steel seem so easy at first glance, but get up close and take a good look. Traditional joinery is easy, really it is. Steel takes far more technology, it was used traditionally but not in the form we see today, with post and beam construction.