I suspect this has been covered before but a quick search didn't turn anything up, so if anyone can point me in the direction of an old topic on this subject that would be much appreciated.

Otherwise: Long ago someone must have cut out the middle 1/2 of the bottom-most (approx 6' off the ground) girt on the end bent in an 18x24' barn. I would like to replace this. What are some options that don't require pulling the posts apart to fit a new girt with new tenons into the old mortises on the posts? A half lap seems extreme and I would worry about losing the load bearing capacity in the post.

Any ideas?

Is it the same width as the posts? Do you have access from the outside face?

How about a chase mortice, cut in line and under the original mortice, only needed in one of the posts. Insert the new girt into the existing original mortice and slid the other end up and into the chase pushing it home and pegged. Insert a fat block under it to fill the chase. I suspect this could even be done with the original boarding in place.

Mike -- the posts are 8x8 and the girt is 6x6. Tim I like the idea of this joint that can use the original mortise and slide in on the other end -- any drawings of that joint? I can try to find one. Here are links to two pictures, each showing one end of the girt in question (what were they thinking to cut out the middle half)? Sorry, couldn't figure out how to paste the actual image in from picasa.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aFDPHUlSsPFTG-LFT5m_3b5VxNOssEJcUNdLN3tZe80

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Vo5pk3s9gqRmV7BTTJiGFb5VxNOssEJcUNdLN3tZe80

No pictures. But I see from your links that a brace is involved. In this case the chase would be located atop the old mortice and set down onto the brace. This would still work for both braces.

I would suspect the purpose of the barn change a little and someone wanted to cut a hole in the side of the barn. Is that char from a fire?

Hello,

That chase mortice is a nice solution where I was thinking of a floating tenon in there and dropping the beam over it with an open mortice on the down side. But I wonder Tim, why make the chase on the underside like you suggested in the beginning? I don't mean in this particular instance with the brace in there, but in the absence of a brace even it seems that dropping the girt down from above would let it then come to rest on the edge of a mortice for support.
A half lap would be drastic and not necessary but a shouldered haunch from the out side of the barn would remove very little wood on the posts and would be captured once the planks are nailed on.

But why deal with the posts at all? Would not a splice be perhaps better in this case leaving more of the original material and construction intact? That it would make the repair more obvious should never be an objection.

(Last summer I cut through a post in a similar way out there in the barn as part of the modification the barn is undergoing from a place for storing hay to expanding the woodworking shop. These things happen as the function evolves. One can only hope the changes are done in a conscious way).

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

C, my original thought was to make the solution less noticeable. I had pictured a jack implemented. But with the newest development one of my new commanders would be sent in to serve, I doubt it will just fall in. I cut about a dozen from one tree, heads and handles, all of various weights and handle configurations. Beautiful tools, wish I had built them years ago.

I'm sure a splice would work, time not being a factor. It worked with nothing there, so some wood stuck in the empty space..... I could be persuaded this is a very acceptable solution as well. More original fabric used.

This is all very helpful food for thought. This girt will ultimately take the load of floorboards when I rebuild the second floor -- does this factor in to your consideration? For example on the splice (and what kind would you recommend is used?) do you feel comfortable that with rough cut 2x4 studs underneath the splice it could carry the load (which will likely not be much)?

Any thoughts on the best existing book or resource for structural renovations to barns?

Hello,
In principle there should be no reason for not splicing a piece in there even if it will be loaded. That said, the splice alone is not the sole determining factor to consider.
In this situation certain splicing joints can be ruled out, for example, half lapped and splined.
Of course extra support is always possible whether it is from 2x4 or something tenoned in there between the girt and sill.
Personally I have not thoughts on books of the type you mention.

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff

Hey there,

My thought was to:

~Make the girt mortise a through mortise,

~Make the housing on the posts at least 1 in.,

~Create the new girt wihout tenons, but instead create a long opened ended mortise like a through-spline,

~Cut relief-mortise/chase mortise below lower diagonal mortises,

~Slide new girt horizontally from the outside of the frame, allowing it to track on top of the housing/shoulder of the posts,

~Drive in 2in. oak spline/tenons from the outside through-mortise opening so that the spline acts like a new scabbed fork-n-toungue joint,

~Drill through the outside face of the girt, through the spline and drive in a few 1 in. trunnels, and draw bore the tenon at the post,(holes in the sp;ine for the girt and post could be drilled during the fit-up.)

~Re-fit diagonals and add compression blocks to fill the relief/chase mortise.

Good Luck,

Rooster