Kevin,

In a large way I agree with you. Look at the picture I posted on another thread here,


This example of fantastic craftsmanship and architecture was made by, well, so called 'ignorant farmers' Professional carpenters, yes, but ones who learned it by tradition, not from a school or guild system.

I don't think education is necessary, in my experience 'architectural education' just makes people want to do strange things and leave tradition behind, because they think they know better. But you asked the question, what will help the guild survive. Well I think that's it, I think that is the only thing that the guild has to offer that will stand up in a time of economic downturn, in a time when people are only going to spend money on things that will help them.

Look at my situation, I live in rural Indiana where timber framing is about non-existent. If I wanted to learn the craft from someone with traditional knowledge, I'd have to travel a long ways. (Actually I did just that, only longer than most would have. I went to Switzerland to learn from the heritage of my fathers) If that is not an option, all that is available is books, these forums, etc. That's great to be sure, but the fact is right now we rely on people to just 'happen' across timber framing -that's how just about everyone here found it, I am sure-
And that's part of what I am getting to by bringing the Swiss organization to the conversation, they are out there promoting the craft to the public. Guild projects do that, but there is more that we could do. How significant is the guild presence at home shows, for example, or in the Midwest and the South at County Fairs, State Fairs?

Discussion of the economic health of the Guild logically should be happening here and elsewhere, but should that not be framed in how can each of us help in the need to overtop this hurdle?

How does negative talk of post-mortem schisms and regional BoD's and class warfare of the have's and have not's - Help in this, our need to overcome?

No one is lobbying the AIA to demand that their designs be executed by trained and certified Journeyman & Apprentices. There is some hope that such requirements might appear in the the lettings of public works projects in the restoration of publicly owned historic timber structures. There is such a need to pre-qualify those doing such work. What better way to do so than an ability to point at formal training in a Trades Apprenticeship program as part of a resumé and measure of experience and ability?

I have spent time working beside those in other Trades in dusty attics and on bridges, and have had those who have come up through Apprenticeship programs ask after ours. Someone seen doing what we do somehow always sparks such questions. In recent years I have proudly been able to explain how such a program indeed exists.

I for one might not be doing this at all, or would be working quietly knowing far less, and would not even know people from multiple directions but from just thirty or so miles down the road that I work with almost everyday, were it not for this Guild.

Despite this momentary economic pain so common to this downturn and our current moment in time, there is far too much here to expect anything other than that this community (that is what we are) will carry on.

I am glad to see some one start a discussion on our future. I have been a member for some time. I ad never seen a money statement till this started. I am not a timbers framer as such, but I have built two barns on our place and will do another this year if all goes well . Timbers are already cut. I enjoy going to the guild build sites. To me they are way more important than a conference.. For one I can not afford the price of a conference. When you go to a build project you have good company and learn tricks from others that are more experienced. I think if the board had been more open in the past and told people of the situation and ask for some donations from members we may not be in this shape I for one would have given but since they new all and put all the blame on Joel dammed if I would give them any now to piss away on some wild idea. When they had the election the board decided who they wanted on the board some of the same not letting any one else throw a name in.
for what it is worth
Floyd McDermitt
Carrollton, ga

I for one hope, especially after saying good by to my dear friend Ed Levine this year, that the TFG holds on. I will read along as others comment...

DL, there are never any "dumb farmer" as those that are, aren't farmers for long. I can also tell you that even though farmers may have assisted and played a large role in that barn in your picture, one or several of them had been "apprenticed Barnwrights."

I am neutral on the "apprenticing" topic, but must say that having apprenticed with Old Order Amish from 14 to 23 (on and off) laid a foundation of knowledge and respect for craft that is still very much in me today. I would also note that weather here, Japan, or anywhere else learning under multiple teachers is much more beneficial than what you just teach yourself. I believe we would all be better served if there was a requirement to be "certified or accredited" as Timberwrights to even practice timber framing. It would weed out the "ill fit," and promote the craft, yet that is easily said, but hard to do without governmental support.

Regards,

j

Floyd,

Just to clarify - there was a call for candidates in Burlington, then again via email and on the website, and - this is important to know - any member in good standing (meaning, essentially, dues paid up) can get on the ballot with 10 signatures from other members. (check out our by-laws, linked below)

What the BoD did is use its nominating committee to vet candidates who were interested (few!) - and seek out even more. That all said, I can understand what the appearance of a limited slate of candidates creates, and that is something I wished the nominating committee could have avoided. Much debate was had over this very topic.

The nominating committee (of which I am not on) felt it was prudent, at this point in time, to seek out very specific skillets that we need on the BoD (finance, in particular, as well as someone skilled at collaborating with multiple organizations). We also felt that any experience being on the board of another organization would be valuable.

Have a read of our by-laws for more information on all things TFG (especially how elections work):
http://www.tfguild.org/downloads/members/Timber-Framers-Guild-Bylaws.pdf

You can read about BoD job descriptions here:
http://www.tfguild.org/members/TFGBoardMemberDescription.pdf
I can tell you that this is the most difficult non paying job I've ever held.


To comment on another point you make regarding $$ - I took it upon myself to present financial information about our current situation in Burlington (then repeated in various forms). As a member you should know that there is typically an annual 'Treasurer's Report' in Scantlings, and recent Auditor Reports are available to all members here: (2012-2007)

http://www.tfguild.org/members/audit-reports

Scantlings is also available online in the Members Only section.


Hope this helps with the information flow.

Mike:
Thanks for posting the links and your comments and your work on the board.

Jim Rogers

Thanks Mike also for the input. I think it is important in this discussion to have a connection to the board, otherwise anything we say is pure speculation. For example, all I can do about the apprenticeship program is speculate, since I'm not a part of it, even so all we can do about inner workings of the guild is speculate, since we are not there in it.
I think a great deal of Joel also, and I hate to see him slandered in any way. Even if he made some mistakes (don't know myself) we have to remember what all he did for building the guild. You don't find success by blaming others, it doesn't work that way (DISCLAIMER: this is NOT a political statement, do not take it that way)

Jay, I'll reply to your post on another thread, since I don't want to lead the conversation off topic here.

Hi,

I used to be a Guild member of longstanding and have had endless discussions with anyone who would care to listen as to why I decided not to renew my subscription to the Guild.

I can draw your attention to a typical sympton of Guild malaise. Check out http://www.tfguild.org/about/heritageappeal where John Mumaw and Ellen Gibson are making an appeal for funds (all very commendable).

I note from the forum users list that John registered to use this forum in 2008 and was last on line 2011 but has yet to chime in and make a post. Ellen Gibson has yet to register to use the forum. Maybe they are both lurkers !

It would appear that maybe we live in parallel universes where board members expect website and forum users to fund "their" Guild. At least Joel turned up now and again even if it was just to keep us in order.

Ken Hume

hello everyone tonight

Apprenticing--hmmm-----lets see now--I had no formal apprenticing so to speak--but in my time I apprenticed by working and listening to my father, that is how it worked around here

Sometimes I think that that we all get hung up on gov't training, and think that it is the end of all things--we all know that hiring practices are usually --"so many years formal training" or "years of experience"--

It is surprising what can be accomplished by a group of good craftsmen led by one really qualified person on a large project, and the larger and more complicated the project, the more qualified the leading person has to be, until we need an architect to lead the group

in the case of the barn in the previous pic this structure was probably the results of one lead framer and many strong and somewhat knowledgeable carpenters--no formally trained individuals, in fact it probably would end up a better structure with this mixture of people

NH

Ken,

What do you think is the solution?

Maybe, just maybe, we should get together on a local level and, on a local/regional level decide where we want to go from here.

I'd hate to see the guild fold, I'd hate to see its publications die.