This is a request for some help,

I am preparing my presentation for next week's conference. I am working on a discussion of some layout techniques and how things developed and some ideas of how and why they might have.
But I need one thing from others that I am unable to get myself, some pictures of American scribed frames. Specifially close details of joints. Really what I need is something that can be used to illustrate how a scribed joint is executed on a rough hewn timber.

I have plenty of scribe rule pictures from Switzerland, but these do not use rough hewn timbers, instead they have timbers that are very accurately dimensioned and planed and as such the joinery is executed differently. So I need some pictures that show the contrast

Without saying too much, let's just say I ave come across some interesting things in terms of how scribing is executed historically -across cultures- depending on the state of the timber. But before I present this, I would like to gather a little more visual evidence.

To be specific, I am not looking for pictures of the work of modern scribe carpenters. While there are people doing some fantastic work, I need pictures of some old scribed buildings.

There are a few on my most recent blog entry you can feel free to use, (one of framing in the Meeting House which be part of Thursdays tour) and I will look in my digital galleries to see if I have something to fit your needs...

Will, I found myself, just the other day walking along with my raceknife marking away, ever so contently, I got to #5 and applied 5 straight lines instead of the "V", I gouged it away and applied a proper V. I used to use chisel marks but have gone to the race knife, the East side is simple slashes while the West side is the same except a slash through the whole number, #1 West looks like an X or #ten. I have not constructed a ten bent frame, yet so it has not been a problem.

That's how I confidently knew that was a photo of a mistake Tim, been there.

I go back and forth (though don't mix them up on individual projects) between chisels and the Race Knife.

Usually it is purlins or rafters or joists with which the high numbers are reached.

Marriage marks is another interesting topic.

Have you ever found instances where the marks were hidden away inside of the joinery? I ask this because a lot of the scribe frames I study don't have visible markings anywhere, suggesting to my mind that the marks are tucked away somewhere where they would invisible after the frame is raised.

I have found hidden marks on a New York State Dutch barn from Canajoharie, NY. All of the marks were on the tenon and face of the mortise. Any marks that could be hidden by sheathing were on the reference side of the timber, such as the tops of rafters, or the outside of wall posts.

I have found true marriage marks but once...

I think because it is impracticable to wait until an assemblage is together to mark it. How is tracking of parts achieved until that point?

In my experience yes & no - Though I've taken apart a bunch of joints in house and barn frames I've not found marks hidden in joinery.

In bridgework however I have done - While not hugely common I have found marks in the reciprocal double daps common to bridge joinery, these typically done with grease pencils not cut edges.

I just marked off bent numbers on two 60' top plates in the daps where the ties sit.(because of this thread) I also made a nasty mistake on one of the splices, and even it if did fit it was 2" short! double whammy. Crazy, I had even planned on two extra feet, that was a 26 inch mistake.