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Pine Timber Framing #32684 11/19/14 04:03 AM
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Stuart Offline OP
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I've been wanting to build a range of timber frame structures for ages now and I'm finally getting my act together.

Most of my research has been on the english tradition but all most all of the logs I can find are either Pinus Radiata (Monterey Pine) or Cupressus macrocarpa (Monterey Cypress). I occasionally get some Californian Redwood, Himalayan Cedar and even less frequently get some Australian native hardwoods like Messmate (Eucalyptus Obliqua), Narrow Leaved Peppermint (E. radiata) or Blackwood (Acacia melanoxylon).

Just today I've been offered a semi load (~25-35t) of P. radiata case grade logs. The things is are the English traditions of timber framing suitable for pine? Do I just need to make the joints a bit beefier than you would in oak? What is another framing tradition that uses softwoods for framing as distinct from log building?

Any good resources people could point me at?
Wood the second volume of the TFG manual be a help?

Re: Pine Timber Framing [Re: Stuart] #32685 11/19/14 06:05 AM
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Jay White Cloud Offline
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Hi Stuart,

English styled frames in a soft wood is not unreasonable, and I would further point out that in the history and even today (from a global perspective of the craft) that softwoods could well exceed hardwoods as the primary species type in timber framing. As for other modalities...100s if you include the many forms of timber frames that span from the Middle East to Asia...

As for text...not much in English, but if you have interest I can help you with most from those regions...many are very unique in nature, often crossing house and barn into a single vernacular structure.

Good luck with your projects...

j

Re: Pine Timber Framing [Re: Jay White Cloud] #32686 11/19/14 08:03 AM
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Stuart Offline OP
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My interest is in pre 1600s building in western Europe.

Ideally something from the english or scottish tradition where they used softwoods. But having said that the western scandinavian of french would suit me just as well.

Re: Pine Timber Framing [Re: Stuart] #32687 11/19/14 12:54 PM
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Will Truax Offline
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I can answer from two perspectives -

Here in Northern New England there was a two hundred year tradition (early 17th C - the early 19th) in the building of English Tying frames with softwood species.

I would add that this local tradition even included what should be seen as a bit of an improvement. This in that no thrust is imparted to the Plates, but is redirected to the the Principal Rafters (and Common Rafters never bear on the Plates) through Common Purlins - All thrust is resolved in the Bents / Cross Frames and the Heel Joint of the Rafter / Tie connection - And resultingly the Tying Joint never sees roof thrust, (but only those tensile forces generated by cyclic wind loads and imparted through Knee Braces) - And a shrinking / shrunk Dovetail therefore never allows a constant force to be transferred to the Teazle / Jowl.

Some background (though not about structural aspects) of our long local tradition in English Tying - https://bridgewright.wordpress.com/2012/12/01/a-now-two-century-old-overnight-turn-on-a-paradigm/

Additionally I both restore historic frames and build new ones, and I have more frames standing that are ET built with White Pine (Pinus Strobus) than any other frame typology.

That said, even with thrust redirected and resolved, I choose to avoid shrinkage issues in Tying Joints by substituting Cog & Clasp Joints for Dovetails.

Best with the quest...


"We build too many walls and not enough bridges" - Isaac Newton

http://bridgewright.wordpress.com/

Re: Pine Timber Framing [Re: Stuart] #32688 11/19/14 04:56 PM
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Jay White Cloud Offline
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Excellent Will...great examples!

Re: Pine Timber Framing [Re: Will Truax] #32689 11/19/14 11:45 PM
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Stuart Offline OP
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Right that is good to know.

The cog and clasp joint is sort of like a halving joint? Works on a square locking jointing rather than the wedges of a dove tail?

Re: Pine Timber Framing [Re: Stuart] #32690 11/20/14 02:26 AM
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Will Truax Offline
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Well sort of, yes, a kind of an androgynous halving joint, the Plate is mostly female -

The Tie is mostly male -

The inverse C&C is typ aligned some easily (tongue or body) stepped off distance from the inside face / non-ref to max relish / end distance.


"We build too many walls and not enough bridges" - Isaac Newton

http://bridgewright.wordpress.com/

Re: Pine Timber Framing [Re: Will Truax] #32693 11/22/14 06:05 AM
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Stuart Offline OP
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Ok knowing that and with the logs I have available I can get busy.

Just need to spend a bit of time designing the joints.

The Monterey Cypress will be good for sills because of its rot resistant properties but I'm concerned about using it elsewhere because it is so prone to splitting. Its really easy to make shingles with the stuff but rather hard to nail them down without them splitting. Tenons would need to be extra long to provide enough relish to deal with this.

On the other hand I'm concerned about using the pine as posts because it is not rot resistant. For most of the frame this wouldn't be a problem as long as its built well and kept dry but the bottom of the tenons of the posts going through the sills may get a bit damp and hence rot.


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