The boring machine bores to the exact depth needed, with a flat bottom. The boring takes the bulk of the time, but cleanup can be very fast. Like 30 seconds to get the triangles on the sides and then one straight down shot on each end to finish. Also, you don't have to adjust your design to accommodate the mortiser. Like Will said, you can go an extra bit to eliminate the curve on the bottom, but usually the machine won't bore that deep. If you have a 1" housing, then you only get 4 3/4" of actual mortise depth, and it takes a lot longer to clean out that curve to get it than it does to clean up a boring machine mortise. One place a mortiser shines is with through mortises. If you can punch through from both sides, then there is almost no cleanup.

There are a couple of things I like about the mortiser. Ours will bore very straight ends on the mortise, and the far side line is also usually very crisp. The near side gets blown out, and is usually tapered at the bottom needing cleanup. I've experimented with running the chain loose, which helps, but is not consistent.

Another gripe of mine regarding power tools is what I call the power tool mentality, which is the compulsion to have every part of the frame on horses at the same time. This drives me nuts, especially is someone puts two timbers on the same horse. Unless you have an acre and a half, then you are constantly fighting for room to work. I'm an axe man, and it really sucks to have to reach across a timber to get to one far enough away to chop a housing. There's another pet peave, the "death by a thousand cuts", as I call it, where someone does a darn good display of singlehandedly supporting the saw blade industry by trying to kerf a tenon or housing to death. I can rough chop a housing or tenon with an axe faster than you can kerf with a circ saw.

Of course this is just my experience and opinion. I know it doesn't work for everyone. I know some people that just aren't comfortable working with an axe to close tolerances. In my personal work, there is no way I could afford to tool up with power tools. I cut small frames, and they wouldn't gross enough to buy a mortiser, and I don't want to think about how many I would have to cut just to break even, never mind actually become profitable with one.

It would be cool to see some videos you may have, Jay.

When you bring up the price of these chain mortisers, I am interested, yet I see a price swing of over half the cost in these Swiss units, twice as much. If someone was just wanting to cut simple mortices, max through tenons in 14" stock which version would be the best choice?

What would you say a full on power shop would expend in cash for a nice set of power tools, Jay?

I think the turning point comes into play with scales of economy. The small shop will run with very little overhead. If a small shop is run 1-3 guys, turning out 1-3 frames a year, to make the investment in quality power tools would be tricky choice but if the shop was shooting for 3 times that, it would be a simple choice. It soon becomes a large investment, from computer programs to dust handling, and material handling aspects, the building you cut in, heat, you know...stuff like that. I suspect it would easily range into $500,000 At which point I alway have to ask if it is worth that effort. Will I be sitting in the office 10 hours a day, with a crew on the floor? Is that my goal? No, it isn't. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McvCJley78A&list=FLf0Typ7X7PYlWmlxHMzc5Ew&index=77

I wouldn't be making a very good case if I quoted $1000 for a used up old chain morticer, so I went with the known and expected number.:)

I was thinking about wear and tear on the body with hand tools. Sure mortisers can be heavy to lug, but they don't have the repetitive motion of boring machines and hand saws.
There absolutely is a place for both hand and power tools in my opinion. As with most issues I think that finding the right balance is critical. I think it is possible to find distortion on either extreme end of the spectrum. For example, I saw someone on a forum making the assertion that pitsawing is a reasonable way to convert logs into boards as opposed to a chain saw of bandsaw mill. In my mind, this is as off base as taking the human element out of timber framing with a CNC machine.
To be clear, I'm glad that there are guys like Timbeal and Dave out there who are able to justify nearly exclusive hand tool use.
As far as overall cost, I have a pretty well equipped shop, with both power and hand tools, but I did not pay full price for most of it. I've always kept a lookout for deals and bought it when I had the cash on hand. I probably have $200,000 invested in tools and equipement but I'm not making payments on any of it. Of course, I didn't buy a brand new $35,000 Toyota fork lift, I have a 59 International with a fork mast that I picked up for $2,400. If I had taken out a huge loan to start my business I would already be bankrupt! And if not bankrupt, in perpetual servitude to the ratrace!

I have to say I am a little perplexed. I see the framers that use only hand tools say that they produce nice frames. But I get the impression that they think they can only produce nice frames with power tools by going out and buying the most expensive power tools they can find. Right now I have a Makita chain mortiser and I am a one man shop. I work at a very relaxed pace and I cut and raised 5 frames last year and have 4 scheduled for this year. Would a faster chain mortiser really pay for itself? Now, if I had employees and they could cut 6 mortises an hour compared to say 3 with the Makita it probably wouldn't take long before a Mafell or SwissPro payed for itself.
Here is another example that I weigh all the time. I use Bosch 6" random orbit sanders and I usually have to buy a new one every year. They are half the cost of a Festool. The Bosch has a 1 year warranty and the Festool has a 2 year. I just can't make that leap to the Festool. I just ordered a new Bosch and bought an additional 2 year warranty, so I'll see how that works out.

I started out with a Makita mortiser, a 10" circ saw, drill and a bunch of hand tools. It is absolutely viable to cut frames that way if you are a solo operator. I think that a good framer knows how to get the results out of what they have. The tools don't make the quality(but sometimes they do help). A Makita mortiser might make perfect sense for your situation. The one downside to the German mortisers is that you have change out bars for 1.5" and 2" mortises. Therefore it makes sense to own two so you don't have to keep switching. If there are a few guys in the shop, this will pay for itself quickly. In your case, probably not.

Observing the conversation, I rest in the conclusion that what is really important is that individuals find the setup that works for their situation and their preferences.

There are a lot of things being brought up that are entirely subjective -matters of preference and opinion. Those are important, you need to follow your preferences to be effective (Don't try to fit into someone else's box)

There are a lot of things brought up that are situational -matters such as material being worked with (rough hewn or sawed, planed, dimensioned, etc) size of the operation etc.

Then there are a lot of thing being brought up that have more to do with the philosophy of the business in question -size of the shop, production rate, etc.

My logical mind wants to come up with a sort of equation to describe how these all fit together. From that standpoint I see a curve with small shops on one end, where a lot of power tools are not going to be cost effective, to big shops that run at high production and high volume where hand tool methods are not efficient.

Yes, if you go one-on-one, you can probably beat a power tool with hand tools. The strength I see in power tools is the ability to get things set up and churn out a LOT of things at once. The Shops I've visited in Switzerland, that's how they work. They set up to cut all their tenons, or to at least cut a whole lot of them at once. They set and spend all day just cutting mortises, etc.

I realize a lot of us (myself included) simply don't want to be in that position. I'm a big fan of efficiency, but I'm also a fan of the process. Again, that is romanticism if we use the literal definition of the word. And that's not an insult at all (the word is sadly so badly misused so often today). People like Dave and Time take an obviously Romantic (think in the sense of idealism, not foolish love) approach -they WANT to stay in the situation that favors hand tools and hand methods, and have successfully done so. They are pursuing a specific ideal.

Others take a more 'practical' approach, where they are more concerned with volume, time, and efficiency.

So going back to the original topic,

I have observed in my travels that Americans tend to have a more Romantic or Idealistic approach to things (think of the popularity of rustic furniture or houses, old industrial styles and decorations, etc. These are all built on a certain idealism). That doesn't mean we are the only people in the world that do it, but it does seem to be a bit more common here.

I also think the lack of a true guild structure (the TFG not being a factual guild in the sense of the old European guilds) affects things. In Europe you see the trades more or less controlled by the guilds, and they govern how businesses operate. In America that system does not exist, making it easier for people to arrive at their own interpretation of the craft.

Wow. I opened a real can'o'worms here.

With reflection, one significant different is the layout method. Square rule is unheard of here, and when you start explaining to French carpenters about housing almost every joint they look at you like you're crazy.



The above is an example of a classic modern french roof ("charpente traditionelle". As apposed to "charpente industrielle" which refers to stick-frame trusses). I worked on a near identical structure with the author of the above image. In 5 days we lifted (by hand) all the timber to the 1st floor. Laid out and marked everything. Cut the joints and mortises (draw bored pegs), and raised (with the aid of a crane which we pushed to its limits) 3 frames, and ridge beam (Davy installed the purlins and rafters later on his own as I was only on a 1 week work placement with him).

To explain, the French still draw out a 1:1 "épure" on the ground, position the timbers on it, and mark the positions of the various joints by consequence. So for that frame we retraced the épure (which had faded a little over the weekend), then laid out our timbers using offcuts as spacers. Davy then marked out the various joints and the two of us cut them. The timbers for each truss were then test fitted over the épure, adjusted if necessary and the tenons were marked for draw boring. Finally the tenons were bored, and all three trusses were built in a stack ready to be lifted. From memory we probably spent at least 1 day moving wood up to the first floor. And we spent 1 day with the crane lifting the frames into place. So that leaves 3 days (21 hours) in which we laid out, marked up, cut, test fitted and assembled the structure.

Heavy timber construction, ie. Timber Framing is nearly unheard of here. Our house is considered bizarre by most people who see it. Standard construction is a 1 1/2 storey blockwork structure with gable ends onto which in most cases a stick frame roof is nailed into place, but in which some clients demonstrate their taste for quality by commissioning a charpente traditionelle. And even then, rarely is much of that structure exposed to the inside, the insulation generally occupies the depth of the purlins leaving just a few braces and partial king posts exposed to the inside.

Historically, regardless of wood species, a tenon is 30mm wide and 70mm deep. Having worked on a frame dating from the 18th century I can attest that this standard long predates the existance of the chain mortiser. Which does suggest that the bar sizes common over here are a consequence of the practice and not the other way around.

Makita make a cross-grain mortiser (KC100) which is superb except for a guide which has a habit of slipping. The with-the-grain model is rarely sold here. I've only met one carpenter who's ever used one and he'd never touch it again. It's just not considered fast enough.

Clearly all of this relates to square cut timbers that are true (or true enough to be usable). All of this goes out the window when working with twisted wood and scribing, although even there I suspect habit would lead most to make supports for the timber and mortiser.

I'll try and post more on French carpentry when I get a chance, if there's interest. I do find the juxtaposition of an incredible tradition of drawing "l'art du trait", and the push for fast-cut treated pine frames fascinating... if a little depressing.

Hi Tim,



I do need to do more of this and I have been pushed more and more in that direction as of late by students and colleagues. I am a bit "non photogenic" and actually try to stay out from in front of cameras and video devices...Perhaps a habit from the Marines, and/or just feeling self conscious...

But...you are correct, I do need to do more in this area...



The Swiss Pro lines were unstable, I agree...

All these large tools are starting to settle down a bit with price swings and we may see more coming into the country over the next 5 years as the global market (and interest in timber framing) expands. I have also noted that with the expansion of forums like this, and other internet exchanges; in concert with "language translation programs" we may see some of the great Korean and Japanese tools start to come back to the North American market. Makita and Hitachi make great "chisel mortisers" for timber framing, and Makita use to sell theirs here...It may now be coming back, along with other interesting items as well...

As for 14" stock...and considering the average small shops production, I would still probably recommend the Makita if only one tool is going to be the mortiser for the shop. $$ to work performed, this tool still "rules the roost" when well understood and outfitted. Very close second (if only one mortiser is going to be supporting a small shop) I would pick the "Swiss 3 in 1 Chain Mortiser" if purchasing something now.

Festool makes several marvelous chain mortisers and these will be here in the next few years...as will probably some of the Japanese and Korean offerings...



Hmmm, that is really a tough one Tim. I would be doing a disservice (I think?) if I gave out vague an idea. I do better understanding the demands on the shop. Many small one don't need much and can get by with as little as $4000 to $8000. You move up as demand spreads, or in our case...the cooperative grows, because as a collective we have a great many tools to through at a project one of us brings to the table to "chew on."



Tim, that is a huge amount of money, and I doubt I would ever get there myself in "one shop" but perhaps in the collective we would achieve that. One of use in the New York area on "the farm" will be building a 60'x60' shop this year, and we will probably be adding a another band mill and swing blade to the Wisconsin group in the next 18 months. No one shop within our cooperative group of Timberwrights will ever come close to $500K!! That is more like the shops that have gone the "Hum-Dinger" computer operated monsters...Now that to me is overkill and is not something I like or promote in general, but understand there place in the scheme of things.