After 4 years in business as a timber framer,I'm now wondering about the cost effectiveness of hiring a crane at $100-150/hour for frame raisings and panel installations. This year alone I've got $9,000 budgeted for crane rental. Does anyone own a small crane to handle this themselves? What size, capacity, costs of operation, drawbacks, etc. do you experience? I would think that a Chevy C60 size truck with an 8 ton crane with a 50' reach would be pretty efficient on the job site.

Likewise, also thinking about a forklift...any thoughts?

Andy,

I was hoping to hear some crane experiences from others too before chiming in my 2 cents.

I found a 15 ton 1974 Grove Rough Terrain crane for $7,000. It has a 60' boom (plus 20 foot jib that I've yet to use or need). Starts and runs any time I need it. One cylinder inside the boom leaks (got to finish this house before I tear the boom down!) and the transmission is weak and the brakes do not work (but the parking brake does work). So far I've had to replace two hydraulic hoses and the battery. Other than that, it's perfect.

Some thoughts...

All of the timberframe companies that I spoke with (before deciding to build my own frame) just pass the crane bill on to the clients. Not a bad arrangement if you ask me. If you're in the timberframe business and your clients are tolerating the crane bills, I don't think I'd mess up a good thing and get into the crane business.

With that said, maybe there are good reasons for owning a crane. For me, the reason to buy a crane was that between pouring basement walls, building a bridge, erecting a large frame (and taking forever to do it), hanging panels, and putting 43,000 pounds of slate on the roof, I was going to have a lot more in the rental than I did in the purchase. Of course, if nothing big breaks, I can sell the crane when I'm done and possibly break even, since my model crane is "at the bottom of the depriciation curve" as they say.

Some things to be aware of if you buy a C60 w/ 8ton crane... if it's road worthy and you plan to drive it on the road, you'll have to pay taxes and insure it for the road and I'd bet that costs a fortune. A lot of times, it'll be sitting idle and you'll be paying that insurance. 8 tons is not likely to be enough of a crane for every project you take on. For my house (oak frame, 2 1/2 stories), the 15 ton crane was just barely enough at times, even when raising many of the bents seperate from their trusses. What you end up with are situations where you can't get the crane as close as you'd like, and you end up boomed way out, where the lifting capacity of the crane is meager. (a 15 ton crane will not safely lift 2 tons when boomed out 60 feet) So you could find yourself in a position where you've sunk a chunk of money into a crane, you're paying insurance on it, and now you have to park it and rent a bigger crane. That would not be rewarding.

So if I haven't talked you out of a crane, I guess I'd suggest considering a rough terrain crane (won't get stuck in the mud, 4wd and 4w steering so it can crab right next to the house site, doesn't require road insurance or taxes) of at least 15 ton capacity. Yes, you'd have to pay someone to move it from site to site, but this would probably be cheaper than the insurance on a crane that can drive over-the-road if you're not planning to erect a frame more than once every two months.

Here's a picture of my Grove...
you can see other pictures on my blog

Thomas, looks like a great house you're building. Yes, I currently hire out all my crane work, and seemt o have no problem passing that cost on to the client, although I usually guarantee the amount so no surprises to them at the end. It puts a lot of stress on raising day to move along and the crane out of there. We probably sacrifice some minor quality issues because of it. I just think that crane hire money would be better kept in-house, I like the idea of being more in control of the raising, perhaps at a slower pace, as well as the diverse work of panel installation and any other yard work that needs doing. I also like equipment for the most part.

Thanks for the photo, I've seen this type of crane around although as you say, not able to go over-the-road.

Anyone else have any suggestions?

Andy,

We estimate crane rental costs for each job and charge accordingly. I'm a little confused about whether you figure crane rental as a job cost or fixed overhead. For us it is a job cost as some projects need a 15 ton boom truck for 3 hrs and some need a 60 tonner for a few days.

I think there is another solution to the rush on raising day that you are experiencing. I would simply increase the crane budget for each job to the point where you can work at the pace you are comfortable with. The quality of your frame and the safety of your crew depend on it. This is just a bad place to try to shave your price down--way too dangerous.

I have never been interested in owning or operating a crane. For one thing, you lose a member of your crew to become the operator -- usually either you or one of your best guys. You also have to think about the training costs involved there. Secondly, I can't imagine what that would do to your liability insurance -- it makes me cringe to think about it. Thirdly, I generally like to work with really good crane operators and I don't think I would be as good as the guys I use who sit in that seat 40 hours a week. Fourthly, I don't want to spend my time and money maintaining, repairing, fueling, insuring, purchasing, obtaining licenses and inspections, etc. The crane company I use has great insurance and frequently inspected and well-maintained equipment that has to cost a fortune.

As for moving stuff around onsite, we generally include the rental cost of a telehandler in each job (if there isn't one already on the job.) Those things are great to have around. I think this is pretty standard.

The best thing we've done as far as getting crane costs down is to become better at working with them. The Guild is a great resource for this. I have learned a ton from going to Guild events. They have also been doing a workshop on working with cranes the day before the conference the last couple of years.

One of our biggest problems used to be finding ourselves running behing and not ready for the crane when it showed up. That's just too expensive and too stressfull. You are already behind when you start. Give yourself plenty of time to do the prep work.

Ans don't forget it's just money. You've got a ton of work in cutting the frame -- don't let $150 keep you from getting it right. If the budget is that tight it's too late anyway and you might as well at least be happy with your work.

All the best,

Gabel

Well said Gabel.

I agree that crane costs should be budgeted into the job at bid time. My guess is that this is how most companies operate.

Identify the crane requirements as best as you can and get a quoted rate from a reputable local operator.

Build a relationship with a local crane operator for your local work and vist the site with them to check access, positioning, ground conditions, underground and overhead services, size and type of crane.

If the job is too far away to visit, network with local framers for a recomendation to a local crane operator. Ask them to visit the site to check it out and recommend the right crane for the job.

They will need some info like largest lift and greatest radius and from this they will be able to decide where to stand the crane. I usually send them a faxed plan drawing with lift weights and positions overmarked on it.

If you can't pin down the type (and cost) of a crane before you bid, simply qualify your bid by saying that you have allowed a provisional sum of X for cranage to be confirmed subject to a site visit.

Crane operation is a whole other business and there is a lot to know and a lot can go wrong; possibly with disasterous consequences. My advise is leave it to the experts and do what you do best.

If you need evidence of what can (and does) go wrong, try googleing "crane mishaps" for a rich variety of pictures of broken cranes.

Steve

Andy,
I also aproach the crane rental as part of the raising cost and add it to the bid accordingly.

For your consideration: If you purchase a crane, you will probaly be the one operating the crane. Therefore you would not be able to oversee the raising as effectively. For me this role is critical as I am the most experienced on the crew and find it advantagous to observe, problem solve and direct.

I however do know that everyone is different. There is a shop near me that has there own crane. I think it depends on what you like to do with your time and money. If you like running cranes and the repairs, insurance, training, etc that accompany them, then by all means go for it.
I would rather put my money into shop material handling and storage systems such as forklifts, in shop overhead cranes, etc.

Forklifts: In the past I worked in shops without them and vowed that when I started my own business that I would have one. I am a small shop (me and another guy), but material handling takes up alot of time and is inherently heavy and potentially dangerous.
I have a simple forklift that works well in my yard. 6000lb rough terrain. It is a 2 wheel drive, so I have to put chains on in the winter. However, it works perfectly for my limited application(moving material safely and efficiently in my yard.)
-Collin

It sounds like most framers build the cost of the crane into the bid. We do. The bid includes both a crane and a site reach forklift. Many times there are only 3 of us prebuilding and a reach forklift uses up one of these people but the forklift and a lifting strap can lift any post or plate we have and lift it right into place with no real lifting on our part. Also, these timbers need to be off loaded from the delivery truck and this can be done in short order with the reach forklift.

A point well taken is that having your own crane does take a man from the crew. The other thing ot consider is how much experience do you have in operating a crane. These are dangerous pieces of equipment. I tend to find that most of us timber framers are independent type people but we should be sure that this independent nature, which is good at times, does not put us in a bad spot. A good crane operator coming onto the job site with his crane is worth quite a bit and his experience should not be ignored.

Another thing to remember is maintenance. A motor burning up, a high pressure line going south, or any number of other items needing repair is going to cost alot. I would rather have that cost being taken care of by the crane owner.

I have talked insurance with my crane operator in the past. He has a 15 ton boom truck, a 30 ton Terex, and a 90 ton Krup. His liability insurance two years ago was some where in the neighborhood of $30,000. Unless some one is doing a whole lot of frame raisings this surely is not worth it.

As for cost, an Ingersoll Rand reach forklift, VR843, costs us $1125/wk or $2550/mo. If we are on site raising the timber frame and installing panels the $2550 pays for itself easily and is worth another man. And, it is always there in the morning and never late to work.

This discussion is valid and I would like to suggest that the tool one person uses effectively is often wasted by another. I am not trying to defend owning a crane as a agood investment but renting a bare crane (by the day ,week or month without an operator) is often on par with a telehandler for cost, material handling and placement during assembly. For panels a crane is a good way to go. On difficult sites a crane is the only way to even get materials on the deck. Whatever the machine make sure you are insured to use it right after you complete your certification for operation. Whatever the machine do not pick anything up or attempt to place it without knowing the capacity of the machine at desired range and the weight of the materials. FOr raisings a pro operator is a good idea although we all have stories to share.

For raisings a small crane supporting a hired on crane allows the big crane to be a temporary brace while other parts are flown in. In many parts of the world a small tower crane is on site from the beginning again because material handling and access to the site are limited and socialized medicine has society thinking about a the sore back a little differently. In the Rocky Mtns I have been on sites where a tower crane is the job site forklift, radio controlled, geez. Of course there was a shuttle bus for the labor on the job so...
With one helper and my rig I can place 400 pounds 75 feet from center of radius with 1 finger, an insurance genius, a check book and a plan. If the load is staged for assembly order this is very efficient, if the joinery is well cut that same helper can slide the joinery together while it is on the hook.
Remember that building is an owner financed operation, factor in all expenses and make sure you price accordingly.

Would I buy another crane? That would depend on the amount of work I had lined up. Will I rent whatever is needed to do the job safely? Always

Construction is material handling and picking the right machine for the job should be by design, make you money and save the owner money in the bargain. Machinery is almost always cheaper than labor.

Safety first,
Curtis

You've all had great insight into the crane issue, thanks for the input.

We have always planned ahead budgetarily for the hired crane and have had good success. But as stated in my initial post, I believe we can do better by doing it ourselves. Since the start of this thread, I've done considerable research into owning and maintaining a small (10 ton - 60' boom) truck crane. The rough numbers work out to be about $1,000 per month to own and operate. With 4-5 raisings per year, plus assorted panel installations, it will work out to almost exactly the same amount of money as if I was hiring a crane. Then, if I do one full days work for another TF company each month, I'm putting $10,000 a year into our business, more than paying for the cost of owning the crane.

For me, this is an exciting opportunity to make my business more efficient, ultimately improving the finished quality of our frames and panel installs. I also like the freedom of not relying on outside help and their often busy schedules. I'll be able to get our crane onto a jobsite when the road is frozen and not worry about mud season complications (real life in Vermont). So yes, I've decided to buy a crane and go for it. And if it doesn't work out, I can always sell it...

Here's to a safe and productive building season!