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makita saws #10111 01/24/06 03:30 PM
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Collin Beggs Offline OP
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I own an older 10" makita with a 1" spindle. The newer versions have the 5/8" spindle. I am unable to find a replacement carbide blade for this saw. Do you know of other sources?

In addition would you give me your comparison in quality, accuracy, design approach with the Japanese power tools vs. the European ones.
Why are the Japanese tables/fences so whimpy, etc?
Do they use the tools differently than a westerner?
-Collin


"The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne."
Geoffrey Chaucer (1343-1400)
Re: makita saws #10112 01/24/06 10:12 PM
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Collin Beggs Offline OP
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I solved the 5/8" arbor saw blade problem by having a machine shop enlarge the hole to fit my 1" spindle/arbor saw.
That said, I am still quite interested in the Japanese tool design perspective/use?
-Collin


"The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne."
Geoffrey Chaucer (1343-1400)
Re: makita saws #10113 01/25/06 12:43 AM
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Chris Hall Offline
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Hi Collin,

I presume from your question, given the saw size of 10", and your mention of a fence and table, you are referring to either a portable job-site tablesaw, or a chop saw of some kind, and not a portable circular saw, since none of the Japanese manufacturers make a 10" circular saw. There is a 9" one available in Europe mind you.
Japanese jobsite table saws are designed for portability and light weight as primary concerns, and are intended for trim carpentry, flooring work, etc., not ripping 4x stock. Mafell and Bosch make similar products.

If you are referring to a miter saw of some sort, I don't know what you mean in regards to wimpy tables, though I do have my issues with both Hitachi and Makita sliding compound saw fences. The Hitachi ones shift position if the slightest kickback occurs while cutting, and the Makita ones can come out of the factory warped.
Anyway, until I know exactly which machine you are talking about, I will put off giving a more considered answer.
As to the design idea of Japanese tools, they are often slimmer and lighter than the western equivalents. Just like with Japaense cars vs American cars. I would say what comes with the Japanese design in tools is finesse and accuracy. With Hand tool cutting edges in particular the Japanese lead the world without question. The ideology is different. Western cutting tools get names like 'panther', shark' 'boss', 'dominator', 'Fat Max' etc - all images of power and, often, a savage ripping up of material. Japanese tools tend to get more poetic names, like "Jewelled Dragon", "Pure Spirit", "Evening Calm on Awaji Island" etc. A totally different mindset.
As far as heavy duty tools, well, there are a lot of Makita and Hitachi (and Ryobi) products that just don't come to this side of the Pacific. All three companies make massive, heavy cast iron jointers planers and table saws, not to mention machines you may have never seen before, like super surfacing planers. My 400 mm Hitachi resaw bandsaw, for example, has a 4"+ wide blade and weighs 1400 lbs. I would not categorize it as wimpy in any respect whatsoever. Japanese impact drivers, while being light and compact, can take tremendous abuse year after year and are very reliable tools in my experience. Ditto for the hollow chisel mortisers, chain mortisers, portable planers and other timber frame specific pieces of equipment they make. Ryobi stuff available in N. America is all the low end crap of their range - but they make automated tenon cutting machery, large portable planers and other heavy duty tools that we never see over here. It's too bad, becasue if people saw the good stuff, they would form a different opinion of the company's products I think. And even their low end stuff is better than a lot of products out there.
As for European power tools, I have used Mafell, Festool, Elu, Metabo, and Bosch. All are good - in particular I have switched pretty heavily over to Festool in the past two years, now owning a few of their routers, the jigsaw, driver drill, dust extractor, etc. Excellent stuff. Mafell stuff I am a bit mixed about. It seems well made, but a little crude. Planer bases, for example, are not finely ground, and for the money, in most cases, I just don't get it. A Mafell 12" beam planer is double the cost of the Makita 12", but no better in any way as far as I can tell. In fact, I prefer the performance of the Makita - the adjustments for front shoe depth are more refined, the base is smoother, and it's quieter.
The Mafell drilling machine is sweet, as is their protable bandsaw. And if I were looking for humongous 2-man circular saw, that would be the company to turn to. Their smaller circular saws however seem a bit of a rip for price. They have an similar guide rail system to Festool, and I can't imagine the quality being any better than Festool, yet you pay 3-4 times more money for Mafell. What gives?
It seems to me that the best stationary and portable power tools are made by Germany and Japan. Both countires have cultures that emphasize quality and precision in their manufacturing and products. Their populations demand that level of quality. Over here, for the most part, low price is king and that is a main reason everything comes, it seems, from China. The Chinese and Taiwanese are capable of making equipment on a par with the Japanese and Germans, but we wouldn't buy it, sad to say, even if they did. So they sell us the low end crap.
The German companies Martin and Altendorf make sliding tablesaws without equal. The nicest single surface planer I have ever seen is a Makita - it's probably $40,000 or so mind you. The Martin shaper is the best, without question. The Hoffmann jointer is superb. Shinx, another Japanese company that you don't see in North America makes awesome 2-sided and 4-sided planers, and probably the best super-surfacers. When I say 'best', I should qualify that statement to: 'highest quality and performance, money no object'.
I hope my ramblings above answered your question to a satisfactory extent.

Chris


My blog on carpentry practice, East and West:

https://thecarpentryway.blog
Re: makita saws #10114 01/25/06 04:10 PM
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Collin Beggs Offline OP
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I really like your ramblings. It is exactly what I was looking for.
The paticular saw I was speaking of is a hand held circular saw. I own an older green 10" and 13" Makita along with the newer 16" blue Makita.
The "wimpyness" I was speaking to is the bases of the saw.
The bases in comparison to the Mafell and Pro-tool seem weak.
My shop is predominately non-electric hand tools but at times (huge oak projects) I employ larger hand held circular saws. In my case Makita. Why? because they are significantly less expensive.
This led me to wonder if the cost difference is due to quality.
Protool's 16" saw is, I beleive $2,000 more than the Makita.
Where is the improvement?
Are the motor's stronger?
Bases larger and more accurate?
Bodies more easily able to withstand the rigours of time?
I do like the look of the Pro-tool bases more but have never been able to cross compare each saw on a project to get a real life comparison.
When I began my start in Timber Framing I used alot of Mafell, but it has been to long ago to rely on my memory.

-Collin


"The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne."
Geoffrey Chaucer (1343-1400)
Re: makita saws #10115 01/25/06 05:18 PM
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Chris Hall Offline
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Collin,

well, a 250 mm circular saw from Makita is a model I am unfamiliar with - how old is the thing?

I totally agree that the stamped metal bases that come with the saws inported into N. America suck. Again, it is a case in which the good stuff is not brought over here. the quality saws have a stiff aluminum case base that is much better.

Case in point: Hitachi:




Note the cheap metal stamped base on the saw at the left, and the high quality bases on the saws to the right.

Case in Point: Makita:



This saw is available in 380 mm (about 15") and 415 mm (about 16.33") sizes. Again, note the base.

I'd like to see a picture of your saw.

Chris


My blog on carpentry practice, East and West:

https://thecarpentryway.blog
Re: makita saws #10116 01/26/06 04:08 PM
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Collin Beggs Offline OP
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Thanks for the information Chris. Is there a Japanes source for purchasing these more solid bases?

My 10" and 13" hand held circular saws were purchased from a Japanese gentleman in California. His company's name is Aqua Stone. I don't know for sure but there might of been some funny business involving trade issues between the US and Japan when I purchased them.
I say this because the saws were purchased around 5 years ago but seem to be of a make quite older. That said they were obviously unused, but the Makita repair shop says they are they are "obsolete".
Well they have worked fine but are quite a bit louder than the newer ones and the arbor/spindle on the 10" saw is 1" vs. the newer 5/8".
My 13" is actually in the repair shop right now and I am unable to photograph it for you. When it returns I will send you a photo/model #.

13" is a great size. It will cut almost 5" deep.

The repair shop says that parts for the saw maybe difficult to impossible to get in the future. He thinks that I should not sink money into the repair it needs.
We'll see.

-Collin


"The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne."
Geoffrey Chaucer (1343-1400)
Re: makita saws #10117 01/27/06 12:00 AM
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Chris Hall Offline
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Collin,

I don't know if it is possible to buy just the base and whether or not it retrofits the stamped stell based model.

So you got the saw from Mori-san, huh? I guess you know he died a year or so ago? A nice fellow from whom I've purchased a fair number of tools. I'm not sure if his wife is still continuing the business or not. Sounds like you bought an old stock model, because 5 years ago there were no 10"/250 mm saws in production as far as I remember. I imagine it will be difficult to get parts for it.

I agree with you on the 13" - it is the perfect size of larger saw. The 16" just doesn't have quite enough power really. They should make it a 230 v. model and beef up the wattage. With a really sharp blade it is adequate at best.

Chris


My blog on carpentry practice, East and West:

https://thecarpentryway.blog

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