This is great. Seldom had I scrolled all the way down to see the 'Axe Throwing' section of this forum, and it's exciting to read some of these posts!! Thanks, TG, for drawing me to it.

There is SO MUCH thought provoking stuff in this forum that I don't really know where to start.

First thing, I also have a strong addiction to 2 stroke chainsaw fumes. Cooked a stihl this season, and replaced it with a 2152 Jonsered. What a lovely saw!!

I saw a 'fast perfect cheap' triangle posted at my local board store the other day, and it got me thinking about alot of things. In case you haven't seen it....

If you want it cheap and fast, it wont be perfect
If you want if fast and perfect, it won't be cheap
If you want it perfect and cheap, it won't be fast

Unlike TG's post of that beautiful building in Germany with the elaborate carvings, so much of the construction industry is built FAST, with CHEAP being the second part of the equation. I understand why it's such a hard sell a timberframe to some clients when their friends house is complete and they're hosting the thanksgiving dinner.

And Hundeggars? Well, I've been on the fence for a long time, but here's my thought for this weekend (enhanced by one pint of Wells English Premium Ale). Technology is here to stay. Hundeggars are here to stay. Once a framer learns how to cut a knee brace or a rafter, they are straight forward, but time consuming. If a machine can blast out these items with extreme efficiency, then hog away. Leave a timberframer and his or her sharp mind and sharp chisel to tackle the more challenging aspects of this trade.

Sheesh, I had about 25 other things to comment on, but my fingers do not keep up with my brain (neither are extremely fast at the best of times... :p

Derek, that's a sweet little vessel you have there. Good luck, keep up with the pics.

Cheers,
Brock

Hey, Brock!

Good to have you down here!

Hey, no taunting allowed. A young skywalker could be easily swayed.

What parts of a frame are hand cut at your shop TG? What are the limitations of a hundeggar? Am I even spelling it right?

Cheers,
Brock

Parts not cut by Hundegger:
Any type of curve - braces, struts eg. (too hard on mill head to hog out that much wood); some corbels, depending on design; pentagon posts; watermelon (don't try this at home)
We find that there isn't much this thing can't do, but when something can't be done, I'm the first to jump on it for hand cutting!

I would think that curves would be easy on the hundeggar. Can the machine not take successive passes to remove material?

Mark, check your email

Yes, it's 'easy', but because braces are usually no more than 4x - 6x, they aren't heavy enough to be held down when the mill head comes up from the bottom to cut the curve. This results in the timber being pushed up, even out of the clamp sometimes, and hurdling across the room.
Also, lets say were cutting a brace 4x6x3'. That brace then has a curve which is 3 1/2" wide at the center. Now imagine taking out that extra 2" with a planer, for that's really what the mill head is. That's why we take it to the bandsaw!

So when the piece enters the machine, does it have to be perfectly sized? What about an 'untrue' timber? Twists?

Just to humble myself with my auger bit and chisel, I'm curious to know how long the machine takes to cut a post with, lets say, joinery exiting from all sides... Is the machine capable of working four sides in one pass or does the operator have to flip the piece?

Cheers,
Brock

and what about housings? How does it get crisp corners? Or does it?

Wow! All these questions coming my way! I feel so special!

Ideally, the timber is sized 1/6" to 1/8" over for finishing, as is ideal for handcutting. But the machine has a tolerance level to 1/4" to account for any taper or skips in the planing.

Untrue sizes - I measure every piece, both ends and middle, and then program into the computer the measurements, so the machine knows exactly what its working with. If the timber is a 1/2" over size, I tell it that and it will do the joinery that much deeper.

And I cull twist!

Time - lets say a housed mortise on all sides of an 8x8 post - it would probably take about 20 min. And it could cut the bottom and sides, but would be rotated (the machine does this itself) to get the top. Sad to say, but that post would have taken me most of a day to complete by hand.

But at least I can further my career as a super model, now that I don't have those big bruises across my thighs from flipping the timbers....

Crisp corners are created through the technology of an item called the framing chisel. I think it still exists out there... :rolleyes:

And apparently tenons were once squared, not rounded. Go figure.

You maybe you're on to something - I have seen (and read about) large tenons with rounded edges, say radiused to about the size of a 1 1/2" auger.... Maybe it was REALLY cold that day when the lead carp was giving instruction.

So the timber exits the machine and is placed on sawhorses for 'hand tuning'? Also, a final planing is done to fit into housings?

I have seen a 'hundeggar floor joist' - are some 'traditional' housings omitted when this style of 'drop in' joiney is permitted?

Gunstocks?

Nope. I get to cut those by hand

It will do dovetail joinery as well....

I'm sorry, Derek. I didn't mean to steal it...But I had the pics and was just waiting for the chance to use them....
We know that you are the real Darth
I am but a Storm Trooper...(or geek)

Hello all,

Here's a pic of a project that was fast and cheap but certainly not perfect. It is ESSENTIAL shelter, and it was the first building on my lot - kinda like a barn, I guess...





Yes, that's about 2 feet of white stuff here in northern BC.

Pine, Fir, and Porcelin, together at last.

Cheers,
Brock

perhaps it's not "perfect" because there's only one empty beer bottle in there.

That looks really solid, Brock. One could even say it's built like a brick... no wait, timber... now I'm confused.

So...did anyone else notice that there is an issue of Timber Framing by the seat

But no toilet paper?

bumping this to the bottom....
If you want it cheap and fast, it wont be perfect
If you want if fast and perfect, it won't be cheap
If you want it perfect and cheap, it won't be fast

YES!
Once again, a great bump by Mark!
Thanks!

oh, and who needs toilet paper with all that snow???

So do you folks think that people who choose to have frames built for them have a little better understanding of the 'fast perfect cheap' equation? Are our clients more perceptive when you explain that you could use 'another week'?

Hi John - very observant. Yes, I believe there was some TP in there, but I was just trying to straigten up for my guests. With winter settling here in BC, the issues of Timber Framing are being reviewed rather quickly - look at the pretty pictures and carry on.

Cheers,
Brock