After reading something in a different post by Jim about cutting the green wood and then raising asap, a question hit me. Has anyone had any experience with cutting a frame with green timbers and then having to stack and store for an extended period of time for whatever reasons?

Does storage combined with the timbers losing water through acclimation cause some problems when the time comes for a place to raise the frame. Would you have to go back and shave those tenons some more or adjust housings for joists, etc.. because of the wood movement.
Seems like it could be a lot of work all over again?

We had a frame sit and wait for over 2 years before the owner decided that the time was right to raise it...
We had to un-package and re-testfit everything, and re-cut some things that had moved too much.
So, ya, it was more work, but the client was aware of this and knew that we would be having to replace some of the frame (mostly the braces).
Still, the frame went up and stands beautiful today...

I stored a frame that was hemlock, wt pine and ash for over a year. It needed very little tuning at raising time. The ash had some nice big checks though.

I had a few problems stemming from the fact that I cut my frame over the course of a year. For instance, my sill timbers varied from 7 3/4 to 8" depending on how long before the raising they were cut. It was a little weird where the sill timbers were scarfed together! In the end everything fit together pretty well.

The angles on your brace ends will change from 45 degrees to something slightly different due to the anisotropic drying/shrinking properties of wood. FWIW, from thumbing through timberframe books, that seems to be an eventual problem in frames whether the frame is raised green or allowed to dry some before raising. If you could dry your brace stock before notching it, then this would not be a problem. Just another thing to think about.

Mark, the biggest check in my house is in an Ash beam.

I brought this post back up because I am still unsure of what the ideal situation is? From start to finish: late winter cut logs when sap is lowest and end seal, let season 6-8 weeks as logs , cut to timber dimension,layout and cut joints immediately , seal all end joints , raise frame in spring, roof over the frame, allow to breathe ,admire, enclosure, cure slowly. Does this sound right on? or would anyone have adjustments to this "ideal" frame situation? Some ajustments come to mind include: if timbers will be hewed(maybe they are best rough hewed immediately than to season first)?, If raising will be delayed for some time, perhaps it is better to let timbers cure and to cut joints just before raising even though the cutting will be more difficult? Another question is what if the frame were cut in stages for example foundation 1st stage: sill timbers, 1st floor, then 2nd stage:subsequent framing and roofing? and what adjustments to be made? I think it is an ever interesting topic on when, how , what is the best time to log cut, raise, breathe, in this craft .Anyone else any ideas? tb

I would also wait for a few weeks after sawing, to let the logs react to the change into timbers. This will also identify most of your problem timbers in the twist and bow department.

I saw all my own stuff, some times I am waiting for logs while cutting the frame. Yesterday the log truck droped logs in the Am and after lunch I sawed three sticks and cut joints in the afternoon. The building is going up a few days from now. If its pine, I wouldn't be overly concerned with how green or dry it was, or how long it sat before joinery, or how long it sets after joinery (years). But hard wood or even spruce might cause problens. I have frames that have set after joinery, for months if not years, and have had very few problems on raising day. One of the worse things about using fresh pine is the pitch, If it sets the pitch will set as well and might aid in finishing, that could take a year or so. Just some thoughts. Tim

First of all I really don't understand the logic in this at all. And I don't know where you got this idea from. But let's say you do this, that is cut the trees down and make logs late winter, and let them set for 6 to 8 weeks. Once the weather gets above 60°F the bugs are out, and that means they are attacking your logs. Unless of course you have debarked them.
So besides waiting 6 to 8 weeks (in my opinion a complete waste of time) you've got to spend some time debarking your logs so that the bark beetles won't attack it and again more wasted time and added work for what?
What is aging logs 6 to 8 weeks going to accomplish? How is this going to improve your logs? It's only going to make the harder if they should dry out any. And believe me if they are logs they aren't going to dry out any; other than the very ends.


Depending on what your building is and what the purpose of the building is you may need to enclose as soon as possible. Each frame and each use may have a different time table.


When you have a pile of timbers all fresh sawn, and you start cutting joints by the time you get to the last timber the "curing" will be enough so that if there are problems with bowing or twisting it will show up. Curing timbers? I really, again, don't see the logic in doing this. Don't you need this building? Build it and get it done....


I can see framing the sill timbers and assembling them right away over your foundation to get a deck on (if it were a house) so that you could work on the deck and cut joints and assemble bents and/or walls for test fits, but again it all depends on what the frame is for and how soon you need it done.



I think it really depends on what the frame is for(again me beating a dead horse). The time table and needs of the client will dictate how long it will take to construct your building.
You can debate this topic to death because there probably isn't one solution or timetable that will suit all needs. Each is different and therefore each may need to be handled differently.

Jim Rogers

thanks all. Jim. Let season 6-8 weeks , is info I got from Steve Chappell's book" timber framer workshop" where I believe he states that curing takes years but at least allow the timbers to season 6- 8 weeks. My logic in this was that logs will season better than timbers, being that the wood fibers will relax into their more natural state than if its fibers were cut immediately. I think when you saw your seasoned logs , as opposed to freshly felled logs, your resulting timbers will not be as reactive. Do you not agree with this? My exception is with hewing , because I believe it gets too difficult to hew if you wait too long. Debarking softwoods has not been too difficult for myself and I also wonder how much damage the bugs will get to inflict in the short time that they would be active for this period, if they are stored correctly off the ground and out of the sun? As far as it depending on the building usage that it needs to be enclosed immediately, I was talking of a situation where the client puts priority on the frame itself and its ideal conditions for its ultimate strength and longevity with regards to timing of cutting, raising, enclosing,....By knowing the generally ideal situation for the frame itself ,I feel I could better make better adjustments in real situations in relation to those ideal conditions. As far as "curing" timbers, this was in relation to the original post, that if the frame were, for some reason, going to have to wait to be raised, then I wondered if it might also be better to wait to cut joints to just before the raising. My reasoning was that shrinking in timbers with joints already cut and not joined would bring more difficulty when raising commenced, as opposed to cutting just before raising, where I think the timbers would not have changed much by the time they are raised, less adjustments, custom fiiting would be needed? I do think this possible advantage in this is offset by the added difficulty in cutting as the timbers will be drier. I also referred to "curing" as letting the timbers (joined and raised)breathe naturally, as I heard it is much better for the frame, like in barns, where it is not enclosed and suffocated and atificially heated, at least in its early stages of settling. Do you know of any complications that might result if one were to frame the timber sill and first floor deck far (say a year or two)in advance of the subsequent timber framing? For instance possible complication with the shrinkage rates of the post, brace tenons into the sill plate mortises? Thanks again . tb

timbers is one thing logs are totally different...


If a log has stress in it, it won't matter if you mill it fresh or later. Stress in a log is stress, and when you mill some boards off it the stress will be relieved and the timber will bow ; now or 6 weeks from now. From my years of experience as a sawyer sawing over a million board feet of lumber, timbers, and timber frames. This also depends highly on the type of wood.

answered above...

Years ago there was a long discuss here in these forums about hewing long logs and how to deal with the relieving of the stress such a big long log. As I remember it, the log was 32' long. John wanted to have a one piece top plate and there wasn't a mill near him that could mill his long log. So he decided he'd hew it himself. Well he practiced some hewing and noticed that some logs would bow when he hewed one side and left the others non hewed. This was because the log had stress in it and he relieved the stress on one side.
He was concerned that if he didn't hew it correctly that the log would bow so much that he couldn't use it.
I believe it was decided by the group advising him to hew two opposite sides in one hewing session. Then the next day or very soon afterwards hew the remaining two sides, in one hewing session. So he had to plan enough time to hew two sides in one day. As far as I know it came out alright as his building is up, and has been up for many years.

If you're doing this for yourself that's one thing, but if you're doing this for a customer; are you really going to take that risk? What if the bugs damage does get into the timber and aren't removed by the hewing or milling? What are you going to do then? You obviously haven't had a timber returned by a customer because of worm hole damage. Don't ask me how I know.

I highly doubt you're going to run into a client that going to put priority on the frame itself. They want their building up and done as fast and as cheaply as possible. They're not going to want to wait for weeks, paying bank fees on construction loans or whatever.

Depending on the size of the frame the number of timbers; which could be several hundred; the number of joints; which could be several hundred more than the number of timbers; you can't expect to cut all these joints "just before the raising". Unless you have a crew of 5 or more experienced guys working for you with all power tools on prefect timbers or a cnc machine.

In a idealistic world this maybe true, but we live in the real world and this won't happen with today's clients.


Again if it's your own project that's one thing but a client isn't going to wait this long. Timber framed decks properly covered over to protect from weather could sit for a while, if you can afford to pay for it.


If you're going to have brace coming down from post into sill timbers then cut these mortises just before raising, not 2 years in advance. (I've seen that happen as some mortises were forgotten)....

Jim. I dont see the harm in trying to know the ideal situation for the frame itself, regardless of whether the client is not going to realistically care about it or not. I feel that you must first know these conditions before you go about making compromises to them, based on ideal conditions for something, someone other than the frame. Also, when I said it may possibly be better to cut the frame just before the raising, I did not mean the day or two before, just not two years. More like two weeks or two months.Acording to posts by others, that may not be necessary after all. I do appreciate your input on the milling of timbers as you have much experience and I have adjusted my original ideas on waiting for the logs to season and have replaced it with cutting logs to dimension and seasoning the timbers 6-8 weeks. thanks tb

Here is a quote from A Timber Framer's workshop, by Steve Chappell:

"Curing and Seasoning
When we consider drying timbers, our real concern should be curing and seasoning. These terms are often used interchangeably, but I view them as two related, but distinct, aspects of the drying process.
Curing occurs in the early stages of seasoning, and relates to the initial reactionary phase of the wood fiber to being felled and milled into timbers. Once the tree dies and is milled, the wood fibers begin to relax and take on their natural shape. There is usually an immediate reaction to being milled in the form of crowning, warping or twisting, resulting from the inherent tension in the wood, but no shrindage will occur until all of the FREE WATER (moisture in the cell cavities) dissipates, and the BOUND WATER (moisture in the cell walls) begins to leave.
Seasoning is the longer term process of allowing the fibers to stabilize naturally as they slowly release the BOUND WATER within the cell walls. When the moisture content reaches equilibrium with the atmospheric moisture content (12% to 16%) a timber is considered to be fully seasoned...." The page goes on to say that "90% of the deformations due to natural stresses will take place within six months, however, the first eight to twelve weeks is the most rapid curing stage. It is during these early stages that the most dramatic changes will take place."

This is from page 139 of the book. I like the distinction between curing and seasoning, Curing being a reaction to felling and milling, And Seasoning being essentially more of the same but much slower, and now including shrinkage.

Thanks Mark. I actually have read the book many times, but I somehow was actually still thinking the opposite, that seasoning was the initial process, and curing was the longterm slower loss of its bound water. Thanks for the correction. tb

tb, it's sounds like you're thinking way too hard about all of this. I say that because I often find myself doing it.

I can only speak from personal experience and I agree with Jim on almost everything he's mentioned. However, I do believe that the 6-8 week timber curing makes a difference when initially cutting the frame and just after it's up. After that it does what it wants especially when you turn the heat up to 70 in the house. The 6-8 weeks seems to give the wood time to stabilize. If stored outside under cover, any moisture that's going to leave the wood will do it in that time frame, atleast until it's exposed to the dry house heat. I also do this because of the quote in Steve's book. I have no scientific evidence to prove this. I guess you'd have to measure moisture content on a daily basis for 8 weeks and of course the season would matter.

I cut the timbers for my house, sent them right to the planer and stacked them for 6-8 weeks under cover. Some much longer and it didn't seem to matter. The timbers only dried about 1/2" - 1" deep, the core was soaking wet. It took me 7 months to cut the frame, finished in February, raised it in July, and there was very little tuning that needed to be done. The frame was nearly flawless........... until I dropped the ball getting the roof on in time. This basically ruined the finish. So bad that I found my self sanding and oiling the frame again. It was miserable..... don't waste any time getting the roof on and getting it enclosed. That's the most important lesson I learned.

Mill, plane, stack (under cover)6-8 wks, cut joinery, raise frame, and get the thing enclosed ASAP.

Sorry, I meant to say seasoning in that last post. Thanks Mark. Also, I'm not critisizing for thinking to hard about something. For some reason I love to punish myself this way.... eventually the answer comes to me.