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Re: Wood finishes [Re: tk21769] #11549 05/21/07 01:29 PM
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brad_bb Offline OP
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I must admit I'm having trouble following the discussion when acronyms are used that I don't know, as well as some other statements like
"You can kick it a little harder with japan dryer, that's basically more of the metals and whatever nasties they use to "boil" it."
If it's not too much trouble to be a little more explicit for newbies trying to follow along...thanks.

Re: Wood finishes [Re: ] #11555 05/21/07 05:37 PM
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RLO=Raw linseed oil and BLO=Boiled linseed oil, maybe?


Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Re: Wood finishes [Re: ] #11560 05/21/07 08:58 PM
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Don P Offline
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Yup, sorry, I normally try to 'introduce" something before I start abbreviating. I'm no chemist so take this for what its worth. "Kicking" a resin is usually slang for catalyzing it. In linseed oil, well, its never really been boiled. It has had metal salts and other chemicals added to help it polymerize, japan dryer is more of those chemicals. As I waited impatiently for a poly called "last and last" to dry on our floors in humid weather, I finally called a chemist at the plant and quizzed him. "Everything dries...eventually" was his response. We took 5 gallon deck showers for almost a month, we called it "wait and wait" laugh.

One thing I think I've noticed and others have made the same observation, a stain or breathable finish on green timbers seems to reduce checking. I think it moderates the surface drying, slowing it somewhat and letting the core keep up better.




Re: Wood finishes [Re: ] #11568 05/22/07 01:23 PM
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brad_bb Offline OP
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Ok, thanks guys. Derek, that leads right into another question. You mentioned wax on the end grain. Do you wax or somehow tread the end grains of all timbers before raising?
Also, Is there anything you do to deter wood eating bugs when you raise a frame?

Re: Wood finishes [Re: ] #11571 05/22/07 03:15 PM
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Don P Offline
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I think that's the recipe woodturners use to "spalt" wood wink You won't get hot enough to kill, just rot. You'll need 130*+F at the core for some hours to kill. The wood is a pretty fair insulator and has some mass, It'll end up being about the average of the daytime/nightime temps.

Re: Wood finishes [Re: brad_bb] #11574 05/22/07 06:14 PM
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DKR Offline
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Brad, as I learned about a month ago on the forum when I asked, Anchorseal is what is used to seal the end of the timbers, as well as some recently cut joints, to reduce the checking. Dries quickly but puts a waxey yellow finish on the timbers, so probably need to be careful in applying it. This is typically applied right after the timbers or joints are cut.

Last edited by DKR; 05/22/07 06:16 PM.
Re: Wood finishes [Re: DKR] #11577 05/22/07 09:34 PM
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brad_bb Offline OP
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DKR, I am familiar with Anchorseal. I bought some wood from a sawer this last winter and he explained it's use. I agree on any green wood you'd want to seal the end grain. To be very specific, I was wondering if there was any benefit to using such a product or other sealing means on posts and wood low to the ground, whether the wood is green or seasoned and dry? Does it deter insects from chewing on the post bottoms or reduce rot? Is it common practice to seal the ends for any reason other than when using green wood?
As some may have read, I am planning to build a timber frame in the next few years (even though I'm a newbie). I am learning and am a craftsman of many skills. I've got my timber framing class next week. I've completed many long and difficult projects in other fields and have the tenacity to complete them. I am currently planning a timber frame built over a concrete slab - no basement, but perhaps a small root cellar. My questions therefore stem from this frame standing on concrete and what type of trouble I could have from insects coming in, and keeping moisture out. In our area we actually don't have too much problems from termites. Other wood eating insects I'm not sure(wood eating ants?). I want to do things right to protect my work as best I can from the planning stages. I expect to get a lot of good info and ideas from my timberframing class next week and afterwards my planning and designing should start to move forward.
With regards to finishes, I'm sure I'll hear some conversation about it next week. I'll probably go and buy some of the products and test them out for myself - tung oil, land ark oil, stains, etc. When I stopped at the Rockler store the other day, they had a sample kit for various stains, which will be perfect for me to try out.
Much thanks,
Brad

Re: Wood finishes [Re: brad_bb] #11587 05/23/07 12:47 PM
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daiku Offline
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bb:

Anchorseal does 3 useful things that I know of - But we use it primarily for the reason you state - to keep green timber from drying too fast.

The second thing is that it softens wood, especially end grain, making it easier to work. For example, smoothing off the bottom of a post with a slick, or widening the end of a mortise with a chisel. We do that intentionally once in a while, especially on reclaimed timbers, which are really hard and brittle. But usually, it's on a surface that we sealed anyway, for reason #1.

The third thing is that joinery that's been sealed (for reason #1) slides together really nice! Like greasing the skids. This is really just a happy side effect - we wouldn't do it just for that reason - we do it for reason #1.


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Re: Wood finishes [Re: brad_bb] #11589 05/23/07 02:47 PM
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DKR Offline
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I'm probably the last person on this forum to try to answer this, as I have just slightly more experience than you, having completed an apprenticeship just last summer with the aim of someday building my own timberframe -- just like you. The only input I have is that during my apprenticeship we raised a barn/apartment frame on a concrete slab. Each of the posts was set on a steel post anchor, but nothing else was done.

Re: Wood finishes [Re: DKR] #11597 05/24/07 11:20 AM
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Michael Cummings Offline
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Good thread -- Speaking as a member of the finish of the week club -- I just finished a doug. fir frame with Watco danish oil. Looks great, was easy to clean up after the raising with a little sanding / re-oiling and economical at $30/gal. I used Livos (German all natural oil finish) on a frame two years ago and would give it high marks on the fresh citrus smell, low marks on the $100 /gal price. Next frame we're talking about either Tried and True danish linseed oil - made in Ithaca, NY or a Sutherland Wells botanical finish -- which is a Vermont made Livos type finish using tung oil and a citrus based solvent. Anybody else willing to share their secret recipe ?


Michael Cummings
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