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Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: timber brained] #13206 11/01/07 11:45 PM
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Housewright Offline
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Hello Hewers;

I have yet to see edge marks left on a historic hewn timber which look like it was made by an adz. All of the marks I have looked at have an arc to the swing, as shown by the nicks in the blade, and if the blade did not exit the cut you can see that the cutting edge is rarely perpindicular to direction of the swing. Below is a photo of an ax mark from about 150 years ago which shows what I am saying.
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o223/jimderby/IMG_3188.jpg

My question is were adzs ever used to dress timbers?

Another photo I will include is one with two axs laid on two collar beams from the same carrage house in the position the marks show that the axs stopped during hewing. (the third beam in the photo is under the handles to keep the axs in position).

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o223/jimderby/IMG_3179.jpg

Am I correct to think that one beam was hewn close to the ground and the other was elevated?

Thanks
Jim



The closer you look the more you see.
"Heavy timber framing is not a lost art" Fred Hodgson, 1909
Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Housewright] #13219 11/02/07 03:36 PM
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Gabel Offline
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Jim,

As to your second question, you can get both of those angles to your stop marks if you are hewing somewhere around knee height.

Much higher or lower and it's one or the other.

And I've never seen adzed timber either, so I would be interested to hear and see conclusive evidence of it.

cheers,

gabel

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Gabel] #13234 11/06/07 01:05 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hi everyone on this slant to the hewing topic,

Well I personally have seen many examples of adze finished timbers, especially those that were exposed on the ceilings of homes. These timbers are usually very smooth, with an undulating surface texture, and in many cases were beaded on the lower 2 corners with a hand plane.

I have studied your photos closely, and I personally came to the conclusion that what you think are axe marks are really overlapping adzing marks. This type of finish can be the product of using the adze with a slight tip to the blade, and working at an angle to the surface.

Also what you believe are marks on the edge of the axe blade are really the divisions between the overlapping marks of the adze.

Now this is just my observations, and I respect your comments, it would be nice to hear from other knowledgeable professionals who might have an opinion in this area of expertise.

It is just this type of observations that are very important in historic restoration and reconstruction, if you are trying to do exact reproduction of surfaces.

NH



Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #13236 11/06/07 07:09 AM
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Ken Hume Offline
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Hi Northern Hewer,

You may well be correct in your observations.

A few years back during building the TFG pavillion at Keene I recall watching Paul Russell using an adze to remove the excess above and below the the faces of a tenon and he even finished the tenon faces with the same tool. The part being worked on was placed on the ground and held down by the foot. During the examination of any old buildings this practice would not immediately be obvious since the tenon faces are concealed from view.

If I were applying a chamfer to the lower edges of a floor joist I would more likley use a hand axe to make discrete cuts and then use a draw knife to clean between the cuts down to the required profile. The stops at either end would be done using a chisel.

Ken Hume


Looking back to see the way ahead !
Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Ken Hume] #13272 11/11/07 01:48 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hi Ken
It is always nice to hear from you, and I enjoy your input as I suspect others also do.

I also have created traditional chamfered corners on vertical exposed posts, and I in turn did the end cuts which were not a 45% but rather a rounded fancy ending to the chamfered edge, this I created with a small draw knife. I used the draw knife pretty well to do the whole operation.

NH


Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #13273 11/11/07 02:03 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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To everyone on this thread:

Just to pursue the adzing topic a bit more. I have had access to many examples of adzed finished surfaces that were hand hewn, the reason for the special finish on the surfaces seemed to be linked with the special position of the timbers in the structures, and the tremendous amount of work put into their fabrication.

The 2 examples that come to my mind are the anchor beams in the Dutch Barns at UCV which are 14" by 24" by 30feet, and the large 20" sq. by 30 foot beams spanning above the wooden guides supporting the upper end of 1846 Muley vertical saw blade also at UCV. In both these cases the beams were the only ones nicely adzed and finished in the individual timberframes.

Other than that the exposed undersides of the second storey floor joists usually small rectangular timber would be adzed and then hand planed and beaded on the lower corners.

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #13274 11/11/07 02:12 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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To go along with this thread and one that I have had to deal with in the past was the actual hewing of large diameter timbers.

The large timbers that I refer to in the forgoing posts were very large round timbers, I suspect the logs that they were produced from would have to have been somewhere between 40 and 50 inches in diameter to square out perfectly square the final timbers required.

these timbers would be placed on a work bed of 6" square to begin the process of squaring and if I were to stand there and look at these huge logs their tops would have been close to level with my eyes.

I ask for comment now on how you would proceed if you were given the task of hewing these timbers, and the only tools that you had to use were historic tools of that time.

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #13275 11/11/07 03:21 AM
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Mark Davidson Offline
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I would split(rive) as much material as possible, in the longest lengths possible. To do this I would score in maybe ten feet from the base and see how well the sides would split off from the timber....

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Mark Davidson] #13281 11/12/07 01:44 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hi Mark:





Thanks for responding with your solution, I suspect for the first step in the hewing process of these large logs.

Splitting large sections off the outside circumference of the logs, in my books sounds like a reasonable way to move forward quickly.

I know in one barn that I examined that had a swing beam, (which for those that are not familiar with the term is a very large beam that spans one side of a barn floor, and is usually 9 or 10 inches square on the ends but at the centre is maybe 9" or 10" by 24" in height), now this barn had very large floor planks that were split out on one side, and the upper sides were flattened and smoothed off with an adze. These could very well have came off the large timber that was procured for the swing beam. These planks were very thick and uneven in thickness along their lengths, and were over 3o" in width. I could also be wrong though in my assumption, and these planks could have been split specially for the flooring sequence of the construction of this very early barn. One thing that I am basing this assumption on is that the length of the planks were 10 feet shorter than the swing beam.

Now I ask the question Mark, say that this large log was procured for you and you only had one log no spares, would you feel confident enough to continue on with your action plan? and if so what type of tools would be needed and used, given that you only had the historic variety of that period.

Mark thanks again for your input and your solution as it unfolds.


I ask other knowledgeable people on this thread to jump in with their solution given that they were chosen to head up the construction of one of these buildings, and were also given the raw material, manpower and capital to prepare this structure in a historic correct fashion, (no cheating) complete with these large timbers for their respective places in the timberframes.


Nh


Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #13285 11/12/07 01:21 PM
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Mark Davidson Offline
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Sure, riving can be controlled, it doesn't have to be a big pop. Especially in pine, which is probably the species. The split needs to be directed from the top to the bottom of the tree. In other words, score in 8 or 10 feet from the bottom and begin the split here, not at the bottom. Start with a couple of steel wedges and a nice long strong froe or flat iron bar of some kind. If there is lots of wood to come off, make multiple splits, or at least two splits so that you can see how the grain is going to run before you get close to your timber. Once the split is begun with iron wedges, have some wooden ones on hand and leapfrog the wedges along the split. If the split gets moving in the wrong direction, it's time to bring out the scoring axe and stop the rive by scoring in to the problem spot and restarting the split a bit further from the timber.
Are you actually doing this at UCV? I might be tempted to make a trip down and volunteer some help. Would be fun to chop a big one.....

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