Re: offsetting joists
[Re: brad_bb]
#13897
01/15/08 09:13 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 895
daiku
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Pictures people, please! They are worth a thousand words and I have a hard time understanding some of these descriptions, given some slightly different terminology etc.. So what's a video worth? How about two? Joist Pockets Part I Joist Pockets Part II
Last edited by daiku; 01/16/08 01:41 PM.
-- Clark Bremer Minneapolis Proud Member of the TFG
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Re: offsetting joists
[Re: daiku]
#13898
01/15/08 11:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 850
mo
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Yea! 89 seconds, done. Nice template, too.
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Re: offsetting joists
[Re: mo]
#13915
01/17/08 01:38 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 242
timber brained
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Daiku. I am not sure what you mean by 1.25 inch joist pockets. A 5x7 joist adzed down to 4" at its ends would travel only 1.25 inches into the beam? And then screwed vertically through this stub tenon and the beam? 1.25 inches doesnt seem like a lot of room to do this, what screws do you use for this?? tb
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Re: offsetting joists
[Re: timber brained]
#13916
01/17/08 05:29 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 850
mo
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tb, like to hear from others but does why do the joists have to be adzed down. if you keep them rectangular, it is less work and as long as there is a housing you don't worry. please share with us your thinking that joists have to be adzed.
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Re: offsetting joists
[Re: mo]
#13932
01/17/08 01:27 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,687
Jim Rogers
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One reason mo is to keep within the "rules of thumb" that I posted at the bottom of the first page. And to have enough wood under the joist end to support it.
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
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Re: offsetting joists
[Re: timber brained]
#13934
01/17/08 01:52 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 895
daiku
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The end of the joist is cut square (I typically use a 6x8 tapered down to 6x6). There is no tenon. A square 6x6 pocket, 1-1/4" deep is cut into the carrying beam. You drop the joist in from the top, making for (much) easier assembly. The 10" timberlok screws are driven from the top of the joist at an angle into the carrying beam. The relatively small amount of wood removed from the carrying beam keeps it stronger. Note the large amount of wood below the bottom of the pocket. The carrying beam in this drawing is a 10x12, so there's 6" left below the pocket. CB.
-- Clark Bremer Minneapolis Proud Member of the TFG
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Re: offsetting joists
[Re: mo]
#13935
01/17/08 01:58 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 895
daiku
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mo:
Tapering the joists make for a smaller housing in the carrying beam, so you weaken it less. The joist typically doesn't need extra strength there at the end, it needs it in the middle where the bending moment is greatest. If you do the math, you may well find that it's optional, but of course it also looks great! In a production shop, we use a power adze. CB.
-- Clark Bremer Minneapolis Proud Member of the TFG
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Re: offsetting joists
[Re: daiku]
#13942
01/17/08 09:29 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 242
timber brained
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Mo, I think Jim and Daiku pretty much explained it, but in my own words: To have deep enough joist to carry the floor load in bending and deflection, but at the end where shear is the primary concern , to adze down helping with shear concentration and to reduce the amount cut into beam and to keep the tenon at neutral axis and to not need an extra deep tiebeam , like 14" deep or so. I do also think NH was referring to a step lap. One could find an example of a cog in Jack Sobon's "Historic American joinery" book, which ,though it is a very small book, is probably my favorite tf book in my collection. Daiku, what exactly is a power adze?Daiku , how far in from the joist end do you start the screw and how much angle do you put it in at? Doesnt the the top of the screw stick out above the joist top surface? Sorry about all of the questions , but I never heard of this before and seems considerable option for my own designing. tb
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Re: offsetting joists
[Re: timber brained]
#13945
01/18/08 01:02 AM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 895
daiku
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Here's the " Power Adze": We start the screws maybe 3 inches from the end, at about 30 deg off plumb. We aim for the bottom back of the housing, maybe a little above that. The screws are self-counter sinking (at least in pine). Just drive them down into the top of the joist.
-- Clark Bremer Minneapolis Proud Member of the TFG
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Re: offsetting joists
[Re: daiku]
#13948
01/18/08 01:08 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19
BB
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Thanks Daiku, good post! BB
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