I'm about to build the sobon shed as a little cabin. (with some modifications) I want to put drywall on the walls because I love the way drywall makes the timbers stand out. So with the whole concept of wood paneling or whatever put aside here is my problem. I live in a hurricaine zone and I want to put plywood sheathing directly on the frame for added strength. So what are the different cost effective ways I can put drywall on as inside walls. How do you usually join the drywall to the timbers? A quarter round?? Who knows how to make a shear wall?

Carlos

Hurricane Party! I live in one of those regions too. I don't know what the Sobon shed looks like but I am assuming it has rafters. You are going to build a timberframe. The timberframe is what will be strong against the wind. Bracing and possibly windbracing from rafters to ridge. Let the timberframe be strong not the plywood. As far as the drywall, what makes sense to you?

I do realise that the TF is strong enough, however I'm going for overkill with the plywood sheathing. The Sobon shed is the little structure on the top right on the books/publications page. I'm actually modifiying it and using purlins instead of rafters. I'm also raising the posts to 3' above the cross/tiebeams and running the roof out another 4 feet horizontally for a covered deck.

As for the drywall, I though about routing out the posts etc.. so that it would fit inside with the plywood lying flat on the outside. what do people usually do between dry wall and a post. I would think that you need to cover this joint with something as the posts shrink they would pull away from the drywall.

Carlos

why not cover the frame with drywall, then plywood? just use longer fasteners for the ply....

Sobon shed

That little space would weaken the timberframe ply strength!!!

5/8 solid wood(ply wood) furring strips on your posts, inch or so narrower than you posts. centered on your post

sheath the frame in what ever think necessary

dry wall after, sliding your drywall in the gaps created by the furring strips. you can either bend a piece of drywall or cut and tape

no strength lost, no quarter round, clean and quick.

bloveland

thanks for the picture of the shed.

I am only suggesting what little i think i know.

how about making it a bent structure...

king post that connects with the tie and principal rafters (a bent on each gabled end

since you want purlins even better to have windbracing. you could run a brace half lapped across the roof surface from the lower purlin to the center of the ridge on each side. (in essence making a triangle that goes from ridge down the roof surface almost to each plate ( you could actually run them to the plates if you know how to find the compound angles for lay-out)

I don't like the rafter to rafter connection in a hurricane region.

not trying to make it complicated, just strong.

yes this would require big screws.

please let me know if my post doesn't make sense.

Carlos,
To clarify, you are not going to insulate? I would think you'd need to and need A/C down there, no? If you also need the insulation, why not consider SIPS? They nail in the outside of the frame with spikes, they are structurally reinforcing, they will insulate for A/C, and you can screw drywall to the inside of the sips and finish with quarter round trim if you wish. Or you could use the Sips with spacer strips on the posts and tuck the drywall behind the posts.

Thanks for the replies.

Mo

I was planning on a king post on one side but I think I wil do both.... symetery... I was planning on braces on the purlins as well.
"I don't like the rafter to rafter connection in a hurricane region."-----Why not??
and why would this require big screws? I don't follow. The brace would be lapped and mortised...

Bloveland

Thats kinda what I was thinking. That would look clean and I don't like the idea of having trim... kinda tacky on a big beautiful post! Thanks


Brad

Not really planning on insulating. It's not like in Canada or the states where the difference between room temps and out door temps can be very large. Here it's usually in the 20's or 30's (celcius). (room temp being around 22-23°) I am thinking of putting strips, (or something) so there is an air space between the roofing material and the inside ceiling just to keep the heat off a little. Spanish tile (or any tile) would probably do this just the way it is installed! I just don't think it is worth it to add the extra lumber (studs) between the drywall and plywood. Sips would cost a small fortune here (if you could get them) and you would never recover the money... even with the cost of electricity here!! The hardwoods I'm buying here I'm getting at 1.15$ U.S. the board foot. Very cheap. However they don't have an alternative for a 2x4. They sell them by the bdft as well which actually makes them expensive.

Carlos

Why not just screw the sheetrock to the outside first then screw the sheathing on over that? You would only need the spacers if you wanted it sheathed before you rocked. BB

$1.15 doesn't sound bad at all compared to new sawn timber prices up here. I've been collecting reclaim when I can find it for .60/BD FT or less. Yes I have found some good deals. I will have some sanding and resawing costs to some extent, but I figure If It's $1.30/BDFT or less after refinishing, I'm still making out well. It is more work.
I picture it being humid in Belize(Is it?). I'd want to get out of that with some A/C. Your guests might want that comfort after a fun day on the water or at night when they are sleeping. Something to consider.

Brad

I never said that we won't have AC... I said that insulation probably isn't worth the cost. You close the windows and doors and turn the AC on!! What's probably more important than insulation is shade from the direct sun as far as energy concerns!!

Carlos

Living in a northern climate, I have often wondered about AC and insulation. I have always assumed it would be just as important to insulate in the south. It takes energy to cool your house just as it takes energy to heat the house. So why not insulate and save cash on the energy bill, it will pay back over time.

How about an adobe infill system, just skip the sheathing all together. Go natural, organic, it the way of the future. Is this a traditional building method in your part of the world? Tim

I agree completely. It is just as important to insulate for air as for heating. However as I stated the difference in temperature between the outdoors and how much we want to cool is at most... in the summer about 20°c. So the amount of energy lost is minimal compared to in Canada where the difference can be 60°+. What is more important is the sealing of drafts. Often in Canada or the states we make air tight homes and then put lots of little holes that we don't seal properly. The cost of materials here can be very prohibative. What is adobe????? wattle and daub? wood chips with clay? I have decided to sheath directly on the frame with plywood and then build a wall inwards with 2x4's. I will probably but the studs at 2' rather than 16 inches, but it does leave me an option for insulation.

Carlos

Carlos, The reason I don't like the rafter to rafter connection is because it seems weak in the face of strong winds. I have no engineering degree or anything like that. But it seems that if you could take two scenarios. One being the Sobon Shed you have pictured and the other a frame with kingpost, principal rafter, and ridge. The second having bracing running from kingpost to ridge. If one of those storms came I would "feel" safer under the one that has bracing.




I hear you on the sun and shade thing. My mother never turned on the AC until it reached 95 degrees F with a 90% Humidity. Had to learn how to open the proper windows just enough to create wind tunnels. Combined with shade and you can manage.

I'm not very familiar with plaster. What can you tell me about how and where and what ....???

Carlos, having been to Fox Maple you have seen some examples of infill and plaster, why not adopt those methods? What are some vernacular building methods used in Belize? Tim

Unfortunately I didn't take the infill course. So, yes I have seen different infills but I<m not really sure about how to apply them. Fox Maple is mostly done with clay... is that a form of plaster. The only plaster I have ever used is plaster of paris. Most things here are done in cement. There are beautiful thatch roofs however.... but mostly on open structures (palapas) or stick buildings. Vernacular here is use what ever you can find to build a shack.... not really something I want to emulate. Not saying they can't offer other ideas... Anyone want to give me a quick how to with plaster?

Carlos

You can plaster with mortar, sand/lime/cement or sand/lime/clay.
It needs to go on something sticky, like metal mesh or wood lathe. Just plaster it on, very easy to get in on the wall, just trowel it on. a trowel with rounded edges is used by the strawbalers around here.

Carlos, Plaster is a name for any plastic material that hardens in place. It is a type of composite (aggregate needed). You would need Calcium Carbonate (lime) and an aggregate (binder). You would need burnt lime to start you would then hydrate with water. This makes it pliable and consistent. You would also need to add an aggregate. You could use horse hair, stones (sand), etc. These act as the binder of the plaster. After it is mixed it can be worked. It is then starts to harden afterwards. If you use sharp textured sand (almost microscopic) it it more durable but harder to work, smoother sand less durable but easier to work. A combination is good.

Attach lath to your framing, (small wooden strips) and then apply the plaster with a trowel. You need several different layers. Starting with a rough etched layer and proceeding to a fine finish. The plaster protrudes through the lath, hardens and mechanically binds itself.

Disclaimer: I am no plasterer. However I know some. I had to recite from old notes. Plaster is a material that takes time to work the right way. I don't have any ratios for the mix. If you do intend to use plaster, I can get you some more specific information via email. let me know. By the way Calcium Carbonate (limestone) is all over the world (dead sea life).

Mo

I'd love to get some mixture ratios from you if you've got them...

carlossettle@hotmail.com

Carlos

Hi Carlos

This is one area that I can help in

Your plaster mixture if you are looking for the historical mixture is 3 shovels of sand and 1 of slacked lime. You would use this for the scratch coat (first coat) also if you do not have hair to mix into the mixture as a binder, you can use hemp just take manila rope on a wooden horse and and axe and cut short pieces 1 to 2 inches long it will resemble hair in the mixture, and will provide the keys with strength.

The next layer would be the above mixture without the binding agent, and this layer was usually the levelling layer and would begin the process of smoothing up the wall and removing any irregularities. Please scratch the surface very lightly only

The third and final layer is usually just a thin layer of the putty lime mixture, (sometimes a hardening agent is introduced) This layer is trowelled with a steel trowel and should ring out like a bell and be smooth enough to be shiny after hardening.

We sometimes used just river sand for the sand part of the mixture free from organic contamination or pebbles or stones.

I hope this helps you out. the whole thing isnt as easy as I make it out to be, but if you are handy with a trowel and a float you can master it. Another idea is to make a small mockup of wall complete with wood lath and experiment before going to a larger surface

good luck

NH

Is it really that easy? I may try this on a small wall. Is there any chemical reactions involved, cautions? Maybe I am thinking of Lye. What tool do you use to scratch the 2nd coat? Tim

C,

the guys have hit on the usual, spacers followed by drywall inserted in the gap btwn the post outer face and the wall material inner face. In your climate, with all the materials on site you could drywall to the posts directly and follow by the siding as has been suggested. If you can get longer drywall (12' or 20') put it up horizontally so the seams go across.
You still have the problem of how to run your electric. Have you considered any of the plastic raceways for hiding and neatness ?
The roof material I would use would be metal, not tile. This also gets you some airflow brwn the roof and the shed interior.
Good luck,
Deralte

scratching the surface is accomplished by taking a wood float and driving in some small nails on the underside and leave the heads protrude slightly, a dozen or more should do the trick.

directions for use--

After you are happy with the surface just take the float and make a few passes in a circular motion all over the surface that is going to get another coat. The scratches will give the next layer something to grab ahold of rather than a smooth surface.

NH

Timbeal:

Slacking the unslacked lime is extremely dangerous, the mixture can catch fire eventhough you are working in a trough with water.

You probably will not be able to get unslacked lime today because of its flamable properties. Years ago I worked with unslacked lime and have seen the problems above, once you have worked the "fire" out then the slacked mixture can be stored for long periods of time and has unbelievably wonderful properties about it.

I have used hydrated lime that is available in stores, and in the mixture above I added 1\2 shovel full of white portland cement, in other words the mixture would be ---"3.5 shovels full of sand, 1 shovel full of slacked hydrated lime, and 1\2 shovel full of white portland cement"--

You have to be very careful not to make the mixture too rich with the white portland cement, because it will set up very quickly and be hard to apply.

The pioneers constructed crude lime kilns, in which they burnt lime stone and produced their own lime ready for slacking. The trick was to keep it very dry after burning because the addition of water to the dry powder would immedately set of a chemical reaction that could not be stopped easily.

NH

NH, at The TTRAG meeting we witnessed the power and magic of unslacked lime and other related techniques. I picked up 2 books on the subject and am going to try and make lime from a source here on the Maine coast, clam shells. It is unbelievable. Tim

Hi Timbeal

That is just great--please post the results I am very interested in your resulting unslacked lime, I really had never thought about using clam shells but they should be an excellent source of lime.

I pushed to have a demonstration of burning lime stone at UCV to produce a source of unslacked lime, but the powers above seemed to think that it was too dangerous of a process to undertake.

Now it is too late for me, I guess it is up to people like you now to carry the flame of experimentation forward.

NH

NH, I am going to the clam shucking factory today to inquire on the availability of shells and their quality. Whole shells are best. Than I need to dry the brush/twigs which I have they just need some dry time, they may be snowed in as well. I was inpressed by the power of slacked lime, with all things powerfull I am cautious.

We do dangerous things every day like drive hunks of metal down the road at high speeds, and climb tall buildings in a few bounds, and we aren't super heros. A local builder had a experience with OSHA the other day after a worker fell of some staging(snowy conditions), not a big fall but broke some ribs and brused lungs which were bleeding. So I am stating to hang on for the ride, here comes OSHA.

With the arrival of the latest and greatest magazine Timber Framing I was reminded of my brush with lime. My experiment failed quite well, so well I am going to try it again. I most likely did not fire the shells long enough. My sample of 5 gallons of shells went into a brush pile late in the day with rain due any moment. As dark descended I raked the shell and ash into a pile. As the drops of rain started I spread out the pile and screened it while still some what hot. This is where things went wrong, I believe. It's my guess the shells weren't fired long enough. For the next day I tried some with water and nothing happened, just washed, crispy clam shells. Now I have to fire some more and for a longer time, let the fire cool all on its own.

And isn't this issue full of great stuff. Apprenticeships, Snap-Line Square Rule, Safe Work Practice, foreign lands with intrigue, lime, fore bay barns and more from TTRAG, tranquil adds and a picture on the back which has me wondering. What more could you want? A fellow to due the drywall on my latest project would be nice, if thats not asking to much. Tim

Which magazine are you referring to? Not Scantlings? I'm not familiar with one called Timber Framing. Where can I find it? Is there a website?

Timber Framing is the fine quarterly produced by the TFG.

It is a member benefit, or you may subscribe.

A sample issue is available on-line.

www.tfguild.org

I am a member. I've only been for about 6 months or so. Maybe I do get it. I remember scantlings, but maybe it's because I probably one got one so far? So memebers should be getting both publications, eh? Sorry for diverting this topic a little.. back on track.

Off Topic

But that's OK, everyone on the forum should also get Timber Framing via the guild. Maybe your wife miss placed it. I just lent it out to my mother-in-law, I should get it back tomorrow. It was Italy which caught attention....back on track.

With caution I am skipping the shells, for now, and looking at hydrated lime as a start. I have to do some work with bricks. Tim

Well, I couldn't help it. I and the kids built a small kiln from salvaged brick with a clay and sand mortar. This way they should clean up easy when the test is done and I am happy with the results. I have read that the shells need to reach 900 degrees for a few hours. I am guessing this is with gas as a fuel. I am using wood and it takes a few days as the temp is a bit lower and there are some other benefits with wood. I went out to feed the kiln this evening and was happy to see the shells a cherry red which means they are releasing carbon dioxide and on their way to quicklime.

Happy summer everyone. Tim

I tried this earlier this summer and had odd results. I am at it again. The small kiln is next to my shop all I have to do is go around the building to load the wood into the kiln. I need to keep a good fire going for about 3 days. I have not slacked any large amount yet, that is next. My wheel barrow has a hole in which needs mending. Here is a photo of the kiln. The shells are from cohogs. Tim
[img]http://[IMG]http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q393/timber500/100_1837.jpg[/img][/img]

How did the second try work out, Tim?

It fired better, I use more resolve. I cooked them till they were almost a power. As I mentioned my wheel barrow had small holes in it. I still have not tried to rehydrate the results, I am waiting for warner weather. I have a couple of 5 gallon buckets waiting and hope they have not taken on too much moisture. I should of slaked the results last fall. The procrastinator in me strikes again. I have all the ingredients, I just have to put it all together. With one exception, the right time.

Tim

Hi Tim,

Please make sure that you wear protective goggles when you add water to the lime powder. The reaction is very exothermic and you will need to remove any splashes from the skin PDQ.

The resultant mortar can be stored in your 5G pails under water for months and it will improve during this curing process.

Regards

Ken Hume

Thanks Ken, I am aware and take the proper precautions. I think it was Rome which had a law saying it was illegal to use lime mortar less than 15 years old, or somethin like that, the longer it sets the better it gets. Does this apply to type S hydrated lime as well?

Tim