Brad's statement was in reference to the evolution of timber framing. As longer timbers diminish in availablity, (Something that happened in Europe and is slowly happening in North America)one must find ways of spanning distances, without timbers long enough to span them... the evolution of the hammerbeam if I understand correctly.

I do remember Steve Chappell saying that god makes the best scarf joints (in other words any full length timber will always be stronger than a scarf joint) and he stated often that he liked to build frames with only compression joints and no tension joints.

As I have stated I can't remember for sure if the king post that I posted a picture of is a half dovetail or not. However I would be very suprised, based on Steve's overall philosphy of Timber framing if it were not a dovetail. Having said all this I don't think I have as much knowledge of timber framing that Steve posesses in his little pinky.

Carlos

Steve C. used 2 wedged half dove tails. Tim

Tim - Thanks, I knew that this had to be wedged dovetail tenons, but since there was no telltale details in the the photograph, I thought that just needed to be clarified, on the off chance...

Carlos - Thanks also for your reply - and while yes, like Europe of say some five hundred years ago the eastern US was once largly denuded (the late 19th & early 20th centuries) and timber of length was in scarce supply, This is simply no longer the case, stems grow longer every day, and while the market for long timber is still underserved, this too is reversing. Long timber can be had if it is desired.

Before I learned that I could purchase any length likely necessary to residential design just forty or so miles away, (closer still now) I bought sawlogs of my needed lengths from local loggers and hewed what I needed.

One needn't necessarily - find ways of spanning distances, without timbers long enough to span them...

Finding the lengths necessary is a real and viable option, nor does it necessarily require trucking from distance.

I've spoken to this in previous posts, so I will not wax on about seldomn scarfing anything or almost always designing with continuous ties and plates...

Will, I have only to travel 100 feet to the mill, where I can saw up to 70'. The issue is getting the log to the mill, the loggers chuckle when I ask for some long sticks, or crooked pine from the wolf/cabage pines. Tim

Tim, you mean like this ???



This guy didn't chuckle, when at the landing they pointed at this log in a pile with others like it, at what he saw as a pile of slash...

He literally refused to truck it the first time, I believe he was quoted as saying - " Therah is simply, no way possible, therah, is any carpentah, anywerah, crazy enough to want that useless pile, 'a blankin bug food"

Natty curves are a whole different level on the matrix of timber supply. Once foresters and loggers learn mills want something longer than standard lengths, they're happy to supply them - The out of the norm, unstackable, slightly outside the market (touched timberframer) aspect of dealing with crooks and curves, sometimes makes them see dollar signs - and that, from the chipper bound slash pile (Think of the beautiful curves spit into the air every day) that really aren't there.

The trick I think, is to make it as easy as possible on their end. Have them just put candidates aside to then inspect and purchase, and maybe even arrange trucking yourself, so the time spent unloading your "wierd load" doesn't knaw at the back of their heads with how much more they could be making if that knuckle boom were swinging real logs at a real mill.

Like long stuff, it is in part, about that end of the market understanding that this end is here and in numbers where the market can no longer be called "niche".

Hi Will,

What would you do with the above crooked log ?

Break it in two and make 2 pairs of large arch braces ?

What about the reaction wood locked up inside ?

Regards

Ken Hume

Make it a cool looking post in the middle of a frame! like a center post in the center of a house on one side of a great room, how about that? It sure would be interesting to see. You'd have to keep it whole of course(debarked).

Bug wood. It looks like that one is on the way to the bugs already. I had a buggy wood frame that went up, and after the heat came on in the late winter they started chew-chew-chewing, the little slivers falling out the holes, eventually out came the adults! I took in a live trap as a joke, had to lighten it up a bit. The worms are as big as my little finger. I found compressed air worked well, a bit messy. Some of the adults popped out not quite done and kind of translucent and resembling something out of a si-fi movie.

Nice cruck, I would cut it in half and get 2 sticks as Ken mentioned. It must be 25-30' as it hangs off the bed of the truck. Almost big enough for book matched pairs, 4 pieces. It all depends on its final use. I have a shot of a simular piece but taken from the operators chair. They don't stack well on the truck, lots of air.

I have found if they go into the frame wet you will get some gaps as it dries. I am now trying to let them dry for a while in the sawn stage and cut a bit longer than the intended use (with angles cut) than cut the joint just before raising.

TTRAG was great, I'm a bit wiped out and now need to rest so I can go back to work. I was seeing Fore Bay barns in my sleep. Tim

Ken - That stick went into a colleague's frame which I nick-named the "Hex-o-Cruck"

I put up the above picture and one of the frame a year ago now -

http://www.tfguild.org/forums/ubbthreads...h=true#Post5791

It was bookmatched, and they were used a set of 'modified' arched braces.

I'll put up another when I get home, stay tuned for scribe -

The tension wood issue (at least in EWP) hasn't been as great as I'd expected - have only found one piece ever, unuseable.

As Tim suggests - Dry is in part how to achive stability, starting with winter cut it drys in small scantling (most braces)in a season.

Tim, agreed TTRAG was a hoot, and it's always good to put another face to a name.

Will. I have difficulty finding timbers in lengths greater than 18 feet. Do you have any tips on how one would go about sourcing long timbers or even logs that could be hewn? I find my self in design work, being limited in creativity by the lack of sources for long continuous timbers. Most of the time the dimensions needed are 8" x 10" , so theses need not be gargantuan trees they are milled from. The few loggers and sawyers that I know, chuckle and see dollars when I mention my intent on using continous timber lengths. By the way I love that saying " that God makes the best scarf". tb