timber brained, my experience with the loggers has been good. If you treat them well they will treat you well. I keep in mind they are out to make a living and it is expensive and dangerous work. When cutting long stock they have numerous grades in that log. The butt could be of a high grade worth more than the rest of the whole log. But you need that high quality 12' log included to make the length. So you pay the price and are content, well the client pays in the long run. It just cost more to handle long sticks, and the benefits are worth it. On the other hand how much time is used in the extra joinery of splicing and interupted top plates? Maybe they are even more cost friendly than first thought. Do a cost comparison and include the freedoms given of the longer stock. Long sticks are an open door. Tim

My experience with getting a long log cut was frustating. I had some beautiful tall, straight tulip poplar. Log buyers did not want them, no market in this area. Not that there is a market for much these days. The Amish do most of the log work here on the Ohio/PA border. They keep most of it for use in their community. Hemlock is "gold".

I found an old-timer who was running a mill behind his house, an old Frick mill. He claimed he could cut a long log but when it came down to it he said it was "a lot of monkeying around". So that meant that I had to push him a bit. Had to get involved in the process. Like suggest taking out a wall of his enclosure, and bringing some help over and my tractor with loader. He gradually came around and was "sold" once he saw I was serious about it. And that being off by a 1/4" was not a big deal. Actually think that he had trouble even thinking "long" because there is so little call for it these days. He would gladly do it again. He gets paid by the bd ft. As long as I helped move the material around, he was happy.

Hauling these logs was a challenge as well. Some had to be lifted one end at a time. 35' was about the longest we handled. The distance to the mill was only a few miles so we only ran on improved roads for a bit.

The economy being what it is, it would seem to me that there would be some interest in "fooling around with these logs if you looked for the "little guy".

Will Truax,
This is in response to you question on page 1 of this post.
Steve illustrated that the kingpost frame is probably the most effecient use of timber for the given space. The original pic that Carlos posted is a kingpost that makes up the library at Foxmaple in Brownsfield, ME. His primary example was his timberframe workshop which is a 32foot clearspan kingpost. If I remember it is 3 clearspan kingpost bents and the 4th a conventional bent. The king post will allow you to span these distances using shorter timbers (you don't use a continious tie beam. The only downside is tension joinery, which can be used if propely engineered, just not preferable. By not preferable does not mean that it can't or should not be used, just that if there is a choice, try to use compression as a it will always be stronger in compression. Steve actually worked through stress calculations in both the kingpost and a regular joint to show the difference. More focus should be given to design of tension joinery, the selection of material, and the execution of the frame pieces (and proper support during raising) as there is typically less margin than a compression frame. One question I currently have is whether such a kingpost frame can adequeately support the extra load of a second floor (with sufficient margin of safety) on the king post truss. This must be flushed out by calculation in my opinion.

Brad

I've never heard of a "conventional bent" I believe they are all king posts. He may have had one with queen posts but the use of the word conventional risks the start-up of a whole new thread!!
You are worrying way too much about the load carrying capacity of a king post. Stop worrying about it and calculate your load and then the size of the members in consequence!!

Carlos

Thanks Brad & understood.

Do know I was simply working to insure that it was clearly stated in the thread, that such a truss required a well designed tension joint and required very careful planning.

TB -

Tim has hit the ferrous peg on the head.

Work with them, and work to understand their business. Know how much area mills are paying per thousand, and then expect and be willing to pay a slight premium, you are likely buying clear butts. (and a choice one at that if the stem is strait enough to do what you want) Learn to talk the talk - meaning, work to learn the techno-jargon of both the sawyer and the logger.

Understand that the mans bottom line is based on getting as many loads to the mill as possible in any given day, and that your maybe undersized load (and the extra work putting it together and perhaps the phone call precipitating it) might mean getting one less full load out in a day, be willing to accept yours after hours, make it a bonus and not a pain.

I've gotten calls about one lovely and lonely cruck on a cut, and arranged trucking myself (love ramp truck wreckers - winch it up, dump it off) because it's known a check will maybe appear in the mail for the cost of putting a stem aside at the landing, and making a phone call.

Talk to other area framers, then to foresters, work with both to create a market.

We are fortunate and in a relativly rare position in todays world, where we often work a commodity from it's raw source through to it's end use -

Like beef does not really come from supermarkets on little styrofoam trays, wood products do not really come palletized in big box stores - The consumer is too removed from most of what he uses and how it is made - So too, is the other end of the market from its end user - Like a cowboy rarly shares a smile and a glass of wine with the people who end up buying the finest cut from the beef he knew on the hoof - A logger rarely sees the end use of the tree he knew on the stump...

Invite the man and his people to the raising - make him interested in what you do - Build real working relationships.

I was merely trying to distunguish between the kingpost truss in question and all other bents like queen post, and ones that do not clear span but have posts in king or queen positions. The kingpost is not unconventional per sae. Sorry for the poor word choice.

I agree totally! I'm working on it, trust me. Just reviewing my statics last night- method of sections and joints, sum of forces and moments equal to zero etc. Been bogged down with plumbing work at my mom's house and my own(farm house).

Thanks for your help and insight with the issue of acquiring lengthy timber. Sorry to temporarily hijack the thread as well. Will, I definitely really relate to your ideas in relation to consumers being so far removed from the nature of products, in all ways. I think you are onto something good when you talk of developing community and understanding between all of the different stages of a project. Around here in my restaurant we have been doing something similar from the local farms to the kitchen and on to the consumers. I would like to develop this in all aspects including my work in timber framing. I think to get some side work in logging and millng to further my understanding and connections to the whole of the trade. Good ideas! thanks again tb