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Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Kevin Holtz] #14420 02/26/08 01:33 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hi Kevin:

Nice reply about the shape of the handle, I hope that those looking in will take heed.

Spoke Shaves, and a small draw knife, and a shingling hatchet, are tools that work real nice when working on the carving of a new curved handle taking heed to the direction of the grain in the wood.

I never use any power tools when I am producing an historic handle, it just seems not right for some reason.

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Kevin Holtz] #14421 02/26/08 01:36 AM
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Will Truax Offline
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I use a double bit often, an old 4lb Plumb, it's my scoring ax, plus I use if for roughing joinery, it's sort of my daily driver.

It is not my primary felling ax in my hewing, that would be a 5lb Jersey pattern.

To in some way speak to your question, I long ago custom ground the double bit, the cheeks of one bit being much thinner, for when the piece at hand will accept a deep aggressive bite, and still eject a chip with every blow - The other side is left fat for when grabby work wants me stuck.


"We build too many walls and not enough bridges" - Isaac Newton

http://bridgewright.wordpress.com/

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Will Truax] #14424 02/27/08 12:58 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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HI everyone looking in:

Will: I like your reply, It is weird how one comment can bring back details that you haven't thought of in a while. Your observation on the thickness of one blade of the double bitted axe versus the other blade.

Well that comment made me remember how my fater's double bitted axe had one blade for chopping with a thinner edge while on the reverse blade the cutting edge was sharpened for splitting with a more acute angle which would split and not lodge in the wood (easily).

By the way he always used "Rock elm" for the straight handle in his double bitted axe. For those that are not familiar with wood specaes "Rock Elm" (now extinct in this area) grew unlike its other cousins very straight with a lovely small crown on top. A mature tree would yield 4 or 5-- 10 foot logs to the first limb. The wood had a lovely salmon colour to it, and by the way don't try and split it, or try and break a board or plank, they would bend to the highest heaven before that would happen.

Thank you for jumping in I appreciate it.

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #14425 02/27/08 01:03 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hi again everyone:

Before I sign off for tonight I am going to leave you with a question-----

Just for a conversation piece how many out there is familiar with "Rock Elm", and does it grow in other areas of North America?

Around here The Dutch Elm Disease eradicated about 90% of the Elm in the 50's, there is a few still trying to gain a foothold and in my opinion I believe a resistant specae will return but will take probably 100 years to do so.

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #14430 02/28/08 01:38 AM
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gregk Offline
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NH,

Rock Elm. Will look that one up when I get home. I have a collection of old forestry/taxonomy books. You sometimes have to look in the really old books to find out that a common name disappears over time. I got into an arguement with my sawyer over some logs I brought to him. They were black gum. He insisted that they were pepperige. He told me that the really old timers used them for tongues on their wagons because they were cross grained and would bend but not break. We were both right and I had to show him a 1914 book to prove it.

I was reading your thread. My son and I are working on a project that includes looking at old barns. We looked at one last weekend from 1860's. Had four 62' hand hewns running the length of the barn holding up the floor.

Question for you. What is the longest beam you have seen/heard of? I am almost certain that these are tulip poplar because of bark that is still showing.

Another question. Elm is cross grained and will not split easily without threading. Would think that it would be a last resort for timber framing, although that might be true in Europe.
We still have quite a few american elms in my neck of the woods(northwest PA). They are almost always out there on their own. In a sense isolated from the disease. I taught my sons to identify them by profile, and before you knew it, they had found them everywhere. Penn State University has a real live collection of american elms. Old ones that line the walkways on the older parts of campus. They spent lots of time/money to keep them alive.

Enjoyed the thread and look forward to your answers.

gregk


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Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #14441 02/28/08 02:45 PM
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Kevin Holtz Offline
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I consider myself a "tree guy" and in my time in the field (primarily in western and central NY) I haven't come across such a species.

Thanks to everyone for jumping in on the double bit axe question. The "two edges for two purposes" story is one that I have used in the past and I'm gald to see that it was true for at least some folks out there. I'm putting on a demonstration in March and now I'll be able to cite references!

-Kevin

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #14442 02/28/08 02:56 PM
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Kevin Holtz Offline
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Hi NH-

I know I've been promising a while, but I will try to get some more pictures of my competition axes up this weekend. I'll try to get some shots of the handles too.

I've been buying handles and reworking them for the competition axes, but I spend a tremendous amount of time squaring them up (typically with a small plane and farrier's rasp).

I'm toying with the idea of starting with good straight-grained dimensional lumber, cutting out a pattern, rounding the edges slightly, and laminating on a "doe's foot" at the end. The core of the handle would be straight and true and I think it would take far less time to knock the edges off as opposed to squaring and truing a shotty factory handle.

Back to work for now, pictures to come soon!

-Kevin

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Kevin Holtz] #14500 03/07/08 01:50 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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hi GREGK:QUESTION--LENGTH OF HAND HEWN TIMBERS--Well greg I have never seen them but I have heard that the pioneering UEL's that landed here in Ontario in 1784, and who had access to virgin timber, hewed plate material for buildings up to 100 feet in length.That would put the trees before hewing in excess of 120 feet standing height. No doubt many of the virgin pine would easily go the distance.

The second part of your question referred to the usage of elm for hewn material--well I did examine one barn that did have elm upper plates but that was the only time that I personally ran across elm used in this sense.

I do believe that like mice if you see one there no doubt are more, so in that sense I am sure that elm was used from time to time especially if you had no other specaes on your tract of land to use. Elm would have been hard to work with especially for plates due to all the mortising that would be necessary.

I am looking forward to what you find in those old forestry books. I have old hand books that date to 1850, that list "rock elm" in their strength tests.

Thanks everyone for the replys

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #14501 03/07/08 02:52 AM
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gregk Offline
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Rock or Cork elm is a distinct species that has a very limited range in North America. Does not grow here in Pennsyvania. It is mostly north and around the great lakes. Sounds alot like American Elm in size but grows one straight trunk with horizontal branches. I see sycamore and elm listed in UK websites. Not sure if everyone knows this, but the glaciers retreated slowly out of Europe after the last ice age. Europe with left with far less diversification of species than we see here in the America's. I think they make do with what they have. Most of the good wood that is harvested in Pennsylvania is being shipped to China.

Gregk


Greg
Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: gregk] #14503 03/07/08 09:09 AM
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Ken Hume Offline
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Hi Greg,

English and Wytch Elm (Ulmus Procera & Glabra) are just two of the elms to be commonly found in England. These are difficult trees to work with due to spiral and interlocked grain and does not split easily (firewood pile experience). Under the old manorial land system elm along with ash was not classed as "timber" and hence was not reserved to the Lord of the Manor, as was Oak, and so people were free to take these trees and use them for their own purposes. Elm does have traditional use in mills and cart building but it can also be found as building material in clusters of old buildings where either availability of same drove the population to build with this material or the quality of the elm on offer was sufficently good to substitute as building timber.

Some of the oldest buildings that I have surveyed and recorded have been made out of elm and these have now been standing in excess of 600 years.

Our 17th century granary is lined internally with hand ripped elm planks and barns frequently are found to have waney edged elm weather boarding. I doubt that sycamore would have been used extensively for building purposes as it is highly perishable but it was used for kitchen treen, draining boards, spoons because of its taint free qualities. When fully seasoned and planed to a nice finish sycamore has a beautiful luster or sheen.

Elm has to be used sensibly in buildings since it lacks the durability (fungal and insect resistance) compared with oak but I have observed from my own tests that the external perfomance of elm seems to improve as it dries and hardens so if you choose to use this material use it where it is almost always kept dry e.g. in the roof or alternatively 100% wet as in coffin boards and hand bored pipes.

Elm would not be my material of choice since it is hard to work, stringy and prone to sloping grain failures.

I hope that this helps.

Regards

Ken Hume P.Eng.


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