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Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Ken Hume] #14510 03/07/08 06:36 PM
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gregk Offline
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Very interesting Ken. We live on a 200yo farm with granary, lined with oak. Kids use it for a fort. We have some English Walnut. They are not native but someone planted them for a reason. Can you help with that one?

Greg


Greg
Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: gregk] #14534 03/09/08 02:15 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hi greg:

I know that the early pioneers would have planted a few walnut trees not just because of the nut but my mother harvested the walnuts from a black walnut tree for dyeing purposes, she hand spun and dyed wool from various animals using the liquor from the walnut husks.

I am not sure if the English walnut trees would produce the same type of dye, but I suspect they would.

If you looked back into the deeds that go with your property, you will probably find out that the early pioneers were no doubt of English heritage, and might have brought along a young seedling to their new home site.

Around here I know for a fact that they did bring in apple tree seedlings, as well as fruit root stock such as rhubarb, raspberries, goose berries.

Even right now if you want a good rooting of rhubarb just visit an old abondoned homestead site, you will find growing wild many of the old original strains. On our farm and by the original homestead site grew 4 very large crab apple trees. These trees were thirty feet high, and the trunks were aprrox 30" + in diameter.

a few years ago they started to die, and had to be removed, what I did was take graftings and started new trees to stay on the property. From One of the healthier trees I took a slice from the stump to examine the growth rings, I was shocked to find out that they had been planted very close to the arrival of the first owners of the property.

Another oddity was that prior to haaving the grafting done I thought that I could reproduce seedlings from the seed of the mature crabapples, but even with the help of a good horticulturalist, the seeds would not germinate. In the end it was determined that the seedlings themselves were brought here as graftings, and therefore would not produced fertile seeds.

So thanks for your question it spawned a good topic I think, and one that I like to retell to those that want to listen.

Just before I leave it is surprising that the English oak survived our Canadian winters, At UCV they planted some and the unusual seasonal weather played some funny tricks on the genetics of the trees, they finally did not survive after about 20 years. (they would hold on to their leaves right though the winter) and stand right out among the other bare trunks around them.

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #14537 03/09/08 09:12 AM
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Ken Hume Offline
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Hi Greg & Northern Hewer,

Greg,

Re English walnut (juglans regia) this really originally comes from Persia. I used to live in Persia and can recall getting very black from the sticky walnut husks when attempting to gather same to eat. I have done the reverse in my own woodlot planting black walnut (juglans nigra) in the hope that this will provide a valuable harvest of timber in 100 years time. I have found that it is not easy to extract the mature nuts from black walnut and this is quite the opposite from the relative ease with which an English walnut can be cracked and eaten. The nut remains in good condition for a long time and so it is quite conceivable that a colonist took a pocketfull to the new world.

NH,

I love your story and do not be too disheartened at the lack of germination of crab apple. This tree is found in isolated spots in English woodlands and these trees must have germinated from seed probably from fruit eaten by an annimal which was subsequently deposited with a load of fertilser. Some seeds need to be treated before they will germinate to break down their hard seed coatings. Try sandpaper.

Regards

Ken Hume


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Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Ken Hume] #14538 03/09/08 09:42 AM
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Ken Hume Offline
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Hi NH,

I forgot to add that juvenille English Oaks (quercus robur) tend to hang on their dry brown leaves all through winter but eventually this habit will decline and total leaf loss will occur.

When I lived in Canada I was told that the reason that oaks did not survive on the prairies was that it could not tolerate false springs i.e. a retreat back to winter following the bud break resulting in frost damage. We planted acorns from oak trees growing in my Olde Hampshire garden at Tom Musco's place in Royalston, Mass. to celebrate the raising of Pembroke Cottage a few years back. It would be interesting to discover if these trees survived and flourished.

Regards

Ken Hume


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Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Ken Hume] #14540 03/09/08 11:39 AM
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TIMBEAL Offline
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Ken, The tap root of a White Oak is sent out in the fall. It is killed by frost. While the Red Oak sends it's root out in the spring. White Oak is not naturally found in my section of Maine for this reason. Red Oak is. Mass should not have a problen with White Oak.

The Beech trees here also keep the golden, crisp leaves into the winter. Tim




Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #14544 03/09/08 02:50 PM
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gregk Offline
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Ken and NH,

Sounds like we are talking about forensic ecology. A favotite topic of mine. My wife tells me the original owner/builder of our house was Dutch. The house is an Adams colonial. Thats John Adams, one of the founding fathers of the American revolution. She says that by the time this house was built, many of the european tradions had become Americanized. The original owner was an agent for several land companies that were selling land along the soon coming Erie canal. I often wonder why he picked this site(remote) and up on a knob, to build. We have remnants of all kinds of things. Two apricot trees. Apple trees in the woodlot. Lots of them. And of course grapes. We have the wild variety but the boys noticed that some of them were full-sized concords. Thats when I did some research on old self-sustaining farms. The house is surounded by sugar maples, some as old as the house. We are boiling that sap down as I type. There are several springs near the house and that may be the reason we are here. He also built the house way off the road, but near the fields/orchard/springs. That is unfortunate for us right now because we just got over 20 inches of snow! The original barn is gone, not sure of the story behind that. As I mentioned in another posting, my boys and I are rebuilding and that is why I found the guild.
I learned in school that immature and sick trees will hold their leaves. Also trees that are sick or old will put all of their energy into fruit/seeds before they die.
Of interest to us is the fact that an elephant is buiried here. Once the Erie canal was put through, this area of Pennsylvania, near Lake Erie, became a wintering site for circus performers. Two of them owned this farm at different times. One of them was the world famous clown, Dan Rice, who dressed up as Uncle Sam around the time of the Americam civil war. He eventually moved into town and married the mayors teenage daughter. What a scandal. Forgot to mention the rhubarb. Got it beside the granary.

Greg


Greg
Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: gregk] #14552 03/10/08 12:44 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hi everyone

Thanks for all the information reference the crabtree germination, and greg great for you and your son trying tosave a part of your local history. Try and find a photo of the original building and use it as a model rather than something completely different.
Ken: I did many different things trying to get germination to happen one thing was to freeze for x no of weeks but I didnt try sandpaper.

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #14553 03/10/08 12:51 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hello again

Greg--we got that 20 inches of snow also, or up here 49 cms, (some clown decided that Canada should go metric) well now eventho I have lived here all my life I canèt figure out how may miles I get to the gallon without a computer!!, Im sure someone will jump in here and say its the greatest thing that ever was but not for me. One thing that it did accomplish was that everything now comes in smaller containers that cost just as much as the imperial ones did
NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #14555 03/10/08 01:44 AM
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gregk Offline
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Most everything that I do at work is metric. Science and medicine. We did get rescued by a front-end loader earlier so I took the boys to the slopes in Western NY. They can snowboard for free after March 1st. It was the best. Saw lots of Pennsylvania style barns on the Drive. The oldest boy stayed home to watch the sap. He did a perfect job. No burned evaporater. Now trying to convince myself that it is late. WE changed clocks ahead today. Do you do this craziness in Canada or in Europe?

Greg


Greg
Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: gregk] #14556 03/10/08 08:54 AM
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TIMBEAL Offline
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gregk, by "craziness" do you mean the time change, sap season, of the metric system? All through grade school the teachers said the metric system is coming so learn this. We are sort of half way between, I am thinking mostly of nuts and bolts on the cars/trucks. Sap season, I don't go there but really enjoy the sweet syrup, friends of ours make gallons of it, its our source. Good old local sugar. And the time change, Hugo Chaveze changed his contry to a single time, Why can't we have a compromise, say move it a 1/2 hour to the middle and leave it. I just got comfortable, and now here we go agin. Tim

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