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Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #14697 03/21/08 01:06 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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First off --thanks Gabel for the directions reference the uploading of the images from Photobucket, it worked great, and I am a little smarter now I printed out the directions and have them hanging right by my side on the filing cabinet.

Jim:

A few years ago now when I helped host the TTRAG conference here in Morrisburg,I was examining an old collection of timberframe structures to obtain interesting construction details to fill in my lecture that I was asked to deliver.

This photo is of a 3 bay driveshed built about 186o. The age I derived from the saw marks, and type of nails used in its construction.

It emphasizes the pressure exerted on the tie joint, and a joint failure happening. The problem seems to be not in the placement of the wood pins from the face of the joint, but rather the height from the tie beam to the upper main plate. The building would have collapsed years ago but one of the previous owners had taken the initiative to stretch cable in a couple of places from one side of the building at the upper plate level to the other side. Unfortunately not enough support was given at this point.

I am very careful in my remarks to say that all the old time timberframers made no mistakes because they certainly did, and this is one of the classic examples of trying to obtain additional headroom in the upper part of a driveshed by raising the height of the upper plate above the tie beam.

Hope you enjoy

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #14698 03/21/08 01:07 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #14699 03/21/08 01:19 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hi everyone:

This is my last post tonight and shows The Ross Barn being raised at UCV with the help of about 35 men and pikes. The lad at the base of the post with the white shirt on looking away was my head timberframer a great fellow by the name of Gerry St. Pierre. Unfortunately he just passed away, we worked together for many of these historic reconstructions.

Preparations for this event took 3 summers, from start to finish, all the timbers were hewn from scratch, some of them from 45 foot hemlocks and white pine, that squared 12" at that point.

You will notice the network of timbers just for the foundation, the hewing just for that layer took one season's hard work for 2 hewers, as well as the work of mortising and tenoning by 2 other full time workers. At the same timewe had to put in place the large stone abutments for the framework to bear on, this all took place without the intervention of any modern equipment, just horses and manpower using taditional hand tools.

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #14702 03/21/08 10:52 AM
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NH, the photo with the compromised post is a good example of why not to drop the tie more than 3'. I often have clients that want 5 and 6' of drop. No, can't do it. I try to stay within 18"-30" of the top plate. One can have issues with the top plate too close to the plate as well. I have a barn dismantled and in my yard, where the tie is only 6" from the top plate and no problens, though. With out seeing the rest of the building I am guessing it is common rafters and no purlin, let alone any other roof supporting members. It is also hard to tell what other joints come into the post in the break area, due to the angle of the photo. Any rot on the exterior of the post? Thanks for the photos. I need to print out some directions and post them next to my file cabinet as well, and than use them. Tim

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: TIMBEAL] #14705 03/21/08 12:54 PM
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daiku Offline
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Richard: Thank you so much for the awesome photos. These are really cool. Regarding the frame that failed, was that joint taking all the rafter thrust, or were there some other members helping support the roof at the ridge or mid-rafter? CB.


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Clark Bremer
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Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: daiku] #14715 03/22/08 12:40 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hi Clark, and Timbeal:

No-- this was a typical 3 bay driveshed with no purlins to rest some of the weight of the roof structure on and to also alleviate some of the outward thrust of the rafters, and the many snowloads that must have come to bear on this joint over its lifetime. By the way this shed is still standing, and you would never know that this problem is hidden away up in the attic area.

One of the construction features though that this driveshed has that may have added to the joint failure is the width of the bays. The first 2 bays closest to the home were wide enough for two wagons to be parked side by side in each bay. If my memory is right I believe these 2 bays were 2o feet in width, and the last one was 16 feet and contained a small shop with a floor. This made for a 56 foot outbuilding and was longer in length than the 3 bay barn that I reconstructed in UCV, and the one that shows us in the process of raising in the above post.

The centre bay was framed in with a lovely set of swinging doors on the opposite side, so that wagons could pass right through rather than back out after unloading say firewood or other items.

When I look at these old structures I can truly visualize the work that went into each one having reconstructed a number of them over the years.

I believe that the hewing of the long plates and mud sills contributed a great deal of the total effort, and of course the tie beams and plates being in the neighbourhood of 24 feet contributed a sizeable share too.

As a last thought and is just a bit of a history lesson I guess This home contained a secret passage way to the basement and was used to shelter soldiers during the battle of Crysler Farm in 1813.

Thanks for your replies

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #14716 03/22/08 12:53 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hi Gabel:

I am sorry that I missed your question further back in the postings ---No the other end did not fail, and it was the only joint that did fail. Remember though that in a 3 bay structure only 8 wooden pins really and truly take the lions share of the roof thrust, it always amazed me how well these wood pins stood up to the task at hand. You very seldom see joint failures like the one that I stumbled across in this structure. In swing beam barns though at least the ones that I have examined the framers added one extra pin in each end of the tie beams, I do believe that for the extra effort of putting in one more pin per mortise it was well worth it.

Hope you enjoy, and I welcome others aboard

NH

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: northern hewer] #14720 03/22/08 10:56 AM
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TIMBEAL Offline
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northern hewer, I'm not sure how my post on planks got into the tool forum, but I am still interested in that document you mentioned about construction of a plank house. Is it possible to get a copy of it, or more info? Tim

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: TIMBEAL] #14723 03/22/08 10:17 PM
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Zach LaPerriere Offline
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Tim-

Could you move your plank house discussion out of the tool forum? I'm sure interested.

Everyone-

This is a great thread. Thanks.

Zach

Re: historic hewing questionnaire [Re: Zach LaPerriere] #14724 03/23/08 01:10 AM
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northern hewer Offline OP
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Hi Timbeal,

Welcome on board Zack, its been a while since we have heard from you,

Timbeal I examined a plank clad timberframe building dating to 1876 that was originally a 1 room school house, but being that it was now a home it was impossible to obtain pictures.

I was able though to get underneath it in a crwal area and see the ends of the vertical planks, as well as the supporting timbers and sills.

My department wanted to reconstruct an early school house this one turned out to be just abit too young for our site which dates to 1860, so it never went anywhere.

I was luicky enough though to run across a family near the school that had a past connection with the original trustees who had the building built at that time. When I paid them a visit Mr Wells came out from the livingroom with an original 3 page hand written document that was drawn up for the builder to work from. It is a wonderful document you could reconstruct this building exactly from the information supplied. Nothing was left out even the price at that time.

I am sure that someone will eventually want to build this type of building and I have the means to that end.

Timbeal or anyone else, if you are interested contact me directly for further discussion on this subject.

NH

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