I suppose this might be a heretical notion but perhaps you could also consider that some frames could be raised piece by piece, especially frames secured by post to sill braces and complicated tying joints.

Hi Don,

The move away from the construction of complete wall frames and complete cross frames (bents) would appear to be a simplification of the long established timber framing tradition where continuous wall plates were employed.

It is somewhat akin to todays move towards adopting modularisation and as such it represents a simplification or debasing of the earlier and more precise building method and traditions. The interrupted wall plate is certainly not in wide spread evidence in England though that is not to say that it does not exist hence in general I do not think that this style of framing has English roots but much more likely to be a product of Yankee inventiveness.

Your topic and items raised therein are of major importance in helping to determine and understand the evolutionary pattern of framing styles employed in New England.

Hard evidence for the date ranges that you suggest would be important in order to establish stylistic precedence in this region.

Regards

Ken Hume

Is it possible to get more pictures posted? That photo is deceiving. How about a shot of the roof system. I would of thought the early settlers addapted quickly to the long stock avaliable. It is a interesting type of building, not common here in Down East Maine. Most of the buildings I see have long plates. Where are the braces? I am wondering if there is a mix of stock, a recycled building, if you will. I see much of that here which makes it tricky in dating. I like going into a building and finding things which make sense. Roughly half of the old building I see are a hodge-podge. I am curious if this is what is seen through the other parts of Maine, or is it something connected to the poorer parts of the state.

Barnology...is that in the Dictionary? Tim

I've posted what photos I have.

there are 2 of these barns, both in the same town in southern maine (Gray). One is a poor man's or working man's barn, the other is from an original well-to-do family (brick house). Instead of long plates, both have a "sectioned girt" system tying the bents together.... and both are old for the area. Early 1800s. Dispite the replacement sawn post in the photo, both frames are hand hewn w/ vertical boarding... both have purlin roof systems. This part of Maine was settled almost exclusively by the English. But as Ken stated, this style of bent connection seems to be unusual for England.

I guess it's still a mystery. These barns are unusual for the area. Most have continuous top plates

Wow, a true mystery. Cool. Call in the experts!

here are the pics that I have:

http://s286.photobucket.com/albums/ll84/mainebarns/

Ken:

Thanks for your input. I was intriqued upon finding these barns. This forum is just what I was looking for, and how great that you are from England. I suspected this style to be English, but you say it is likley not...

As far as evidence on date range, what do you suggest? I could revisit... perhaps pull a nail to see if it is forged or cut.. or research deeds. I assume barns are often not listed on deeds.

I do want to help define Yankee building practices here, as you suggest.

Any other folks out there who have seen this style of bent construction... that is, w/ no continuous top plate?

click here for photos:
http://s286.photobucket.com/albums/ll84/mainebarns/

thanks to all:

Don

Hi Don,

A subgroup within the TFG is the TTRAG - Traditional Timber Frame Research and Advisory Group.

Check out http://tfguild.org/ttrag.html

This group undertakes building surveys and maintains an archive of their findings. It would seem therefore that this might be your logical start point to help determine what other "hard" information has already been collected re New England barn design. Will Beemer and / or Rudi Christian should be able to help you in this quest.

Will,

Does this archive really exist and if yes, how does a person gain access to same ? Is there a list of surveyed buildings that can be posted on the website ? Can reports be downloaded ? How does a person add a report to the archive ?

Regards

Ken Hume

Will B., I would second Kens last post.

Don, thanks for the additional pictures. Nice 3/4 views, and you went beyond the windshield survey and got permission to look inside. I have never been told "no" as I bumble my way through an introdction and a request to "look at the old barn." Some times they almost seem flattered. Some go along and others don't. I am always let down when no one is home and I have to come back later. At that point I just do a windshield survey. At the last TTRAG meet, Doug Reed pointed out when dating a building to gain many dates and catalog them, than see what date is more prevalent, this is for an unknown building. Nails are only one factor, hardware is good, and there is online cataloges for that research. Tim

Hi Tim,

You make mention of catalogues for hardware & nails. Can you provide a web address to help with that research ?

My friend in Australia (who has a Masters Degree in Timber Building Conservation) is currently compiling a definitive work on nails and their use in building. Being located in a relatively "new" country, he frequently makes reference to items manufactured in England and East Coast USA that were exported to Australia. This research is particularly helpful in providing timelines when examining buildings from the period 1830 onwards. He also has samples of hand made nails from as early as the 1300's and later but it would appear that it was not until the early / mid 1800's that manufactured items became more prevalent in building and so this type of information might well assist in helping to date both New and Olde England's building heritage.

Regards

Ken Hume

One of the oldest nail making companies, which is still in business, here in Massachusetts, is Tremont Nail Company.
They sell a history of nails display that shows how nails evolved over the years.
Here is a link to the page:
http://www.tremontnail.com/accessories-index.htm

Their history page is good too....

Jim Rogers

Thank you all for the the info. This forum is really a great find.

Ken, Thanks for the TTRAG link. I should try to join this as my research progresses.

Jim, I will definatley investigate Tremont Nail. Nice.

Tim, inside is always more fun, if you know what I mean.

Well guess what Gents? I was out scouring today and found another one of these barns w/ no continuous top plate!!!!! And it's in the same town as the others!!

This one is from a later date...1880s, they tell me. All sawn timbers. That's a switch and adds to the drama.

Where are the comments from other folks who have seen this style??? Does it only exist here?

Don