Hello, Iam new to the site by way of posts but I have been lurking around for quite some time. I am in the process of ordering the timber, which will be FOHC Doug Fir, for my frame. The great debate is Green vs. Traditional KD vs. RFKD. In concert with that decision comes the lumber grade decision, ie. #1 or dense select structural. Any information with regards to the green versus dry would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

welcome, rgator.

Could you tell us a little about the frame, including where the site is?

The site is in Maryland. The house is 5500 sq. ft. and is completely timber frame except for the garage. The main roof is a hip with a few gable dormers and turrets. The roof will be 2x6 T&G. I am still debating the use of sips on the roof versus a built up system. The 2nd floor system will be on 1x6 T&G fir with a standard 2x4 floor joist system on top. The exterior walls will be 2x4 with spray foam insulation.
As I stated in the original post I am in the process of selecting the material for the frame. I have received a crash course on Doug Fir in the last 2 weeks. The only problem is that the teachers are the sales people, that are attempting to get you to buy there product. In light of that I figure that this would be an excellent place to get an unbiased opinion.I think that about sums it up. If further elaboration is needed I will be more than happy to comply. I could write a novel with regards to this project but this is not the place for that.

Thanks

Dry Doug Fir is awful to work with hand tools - very dusty and brashy and hard to work cross-grain with a chisel - so unless your really tooled up to do all power tools or even a CNC machine, I'd suggest green. Shrinkage is higher than most softwoods, but not like hardwood. FOHC should minimize checking.

Thanks for the reply Will. Thats the delima, green dense select structural or a KD or RFKD #1. Is the dry material worth the 20K price difference. I am hoping there will be others who have been through this decision that can share there results.

Thanks
Ron

Good day RGATOR,
First I would ask why you are choosing a non regional species?

ON TO DOUGLAS FIR:
Before I switched to Forest Stewardship Council Certified Douglas Fir, I would speck out Green, FOHC, Dense, #1 and Better (+ end grain sealed and anti stain treated).

On occasion I speck out Select Structural, however the mills that I receive timbers from send out at least 50% + Select Structural even when ordering #1 and Better.

DRY WOOD:
Drying is unnecessary except in very specific applications and
common residential work such as your project is typically not one of them.

The net gain of conventional kiln drying large beams does not warrant the additional expense due to the fact that they can only dry 2"+- into the timber.

RFVKD works, but it is important to initially order oversized timbers and have them re-sawn to square and size after the RFVKD process is complete.

Rather than drying which increases the costs dramatically, I would focus on finding a saw mill that would provide you with the densest, highest grade material possible.

Dense in the grade books only specifies around 5 growth rings per inch, which in the Timber Frame world is not very dense at all for Douglas Fir.

Each mill's timbers may match up evenly according to grade, but it is the mill that will provide you with material well beyond the minimum grade standards that you want.

In the US, it is timbers from coastal southern Oregon such as Starfire, Herbert Mill and others that can supply this. In Canada it is the coastal BC mills such as TF Sawmill and others.

Will's comments regarding Douglas Fir's workability are of the highest importance. The denser the material is, the better it will be to work.

In summery,
20K price difference is not worth the additional expense (except for very specific applications)

Instead, I would put your money into finding the very best saw mill and material possible.

For your consideration:
Another avenue is to purchase Forest Stewardship Council Certified Douglas Fir and let go of the "best" grade (which will undoubtably come from old growth forests) and instead choose a more ethical source of Douglas Fir.

Hi Collin, I appreciate the response. I selected Doug Fir because of its looks and physical characteristics. I have spoken to the mills you have mentioned and many others. Ihave received samples that have 16 to 18 rings per inch. Naturally they would send there tightest samples but I guess I can resolve that in the spec. The dense material commands a high price as well. I was told that most of the dense high end Doug Fir goes over seas where it commands huge money.I will say that your response, with regards to quality green versus dry and conventional drying, has been repeated several times to me.

Thanks
Ron

What the hell's been going on since I've been gone? How did you manage to get to this point, Swanger?
Matter of time, I suppose...

But FOHC cedar will make you a nice, long-lasting temple - the citizens of the future will be revering you to eternity - good choice.

I'd stick with the 74 FJ paint it rattle can pearl white and throw some spinna's on it

The Ferrari Enzo , of course...
Are you worthy?