I love learning new things! I looked dap up in a couple of good dictionaries I have but dictionary.com had the best definitons. Now I want to know the origin of "dap"!

Another term I have heard used for a cut accross a rafter where a perlin passes is a trench cut as opposed to a notch, which does not go all the way accross the piece.

Will, I do not know what FTX is.

I tried setting up slideshows of three CG barns (I call these bent style frames, too) but it was not going well and I need some sleep so I will try again in the next few days.

Jim

Will,

That's great that these are scribed CG barns and that you've been seeking some examples. Yes, we can visit them. It would be great to meet. I now know of 5 of these CG barns... only 1 is built of sawn timber. 4 are in one town, 1 in another. According to Google Maps, Barnstead is about 80 miles away from these barns, which are in Gray, Maine... they give a travel time of about 2 hrs.

Tell me, how did you know they are scribed? Was it the marriage marks? I must admit that I'm foggy on what exactly "scribed" means and how to know it on sight. It sounds like it's an older method. In order to get everything in a common plane, it involves custom fitting/scribing of inexact (hewn) timbers. (correct?)

This CG style seems like an easier and simpler method, especially in regards to raising. Perhaps that's why it was done? Upon erection, the major roof frame is already in place, and its easier to erect a frame transversely, etc... but I'm only speculating.

Another detail I wanted to mention: The rafters and crossties are cantilevered over the posts a bit in this CG style. If you look at the pictures again you can see that Barn 2 exhibits this to a greater degree than in Barn 1.

Anyway, given the travel distance between us, it will be a full day for sure... I will try and pin down construction dates more for these buildings, so lets plan on 2-3 weeks out. I've been going by owner accounts and my own observation/knowledge for dating. I'll meet with the historical societies and owners again and see what I can get for more definitive numbers. From what the owners say, Barn 2 seems like the older of the two. But we may not be able to trace it exactly... it's like trying to document what you had for dinner 4 and 5 tuesdays ago!

Don

I think the absence of housings and reductions which are present in scribe rule. Let us see what Will thinks. I wonder if the sawn frame is scribed or square? Tim

Don, If you and the owners are willing, I would be willing to help you organize a barn tour of up to say 20 barn enthusiests. Would you be willing?

Jim

Jim:

Hello-- This is a good idea. I was thinking that more would want to come see. But 20 is probably too many... 10 or less would be more like it.

Mostly because these barns are obviously old and are therefore structurally compromised. Folks will likely want to go to the lofts in order to look at the construction details in the roof/walls... this is "pass at your own risk" territory. The lofts can't support many people. In fact when I was there, just two of us (me and the owner) were causing one of the lofts to get very bouncy. I was having second thoughts kind of feelings.... It felt like rickety staging

Second, I don't want to descend on the owners w/ a group that big.

And third, both these barns are just FULL of crap! As I'm sure you have seen, many old barns are just storage vessels these days. Getting around is very difficult even for 2 people.

I think one barn owner would welcome a group (of 10 or less), I'll have to run the whole thing by the other owner. She told me "very few people have seen the inside of this barn (in the last 50 years)."

I'll run the idea of "small groups," less then 10, by them... If there are more barn junkies who want to come, we could do it during two weekends perhaps.

I'll certainly try... the whole thing is really getting neat and I'd like to meet all you "barn junkies."

My wife thinks I'm a bit weird to be into barns. Sound familiar?

Don

Joe --

While yes, Lap is a family, a catagory of joinery - It is also a noun, for the male half of a joint.

In the lexicon I am describing - the Dap is the female half. The definition above suggests that it is a 16th century variation of dab - I wonder what the OED suggests.


Don --

I hadn't really been seeking examples, but had come to the assumption (without much more thought than that) than none existed. This based solely on personal experience, having been in (guessing) something approaching a hundred such buildings, and maybe a somewhat smaller number of earlier (mostly English Tieing) scribed frames.

Yes, as Tim suggests, an abcense or a presense of housings and reductions make the identification as to Scribe or Square quite simple, but there are other identifiers as you have guessed.


I'd like to recommend this book by New Hampshire State Architectural Historian, James Garvin - Jim gave an excellent talk at TTRAG '04 and is an open treasurehouse of knowledge

http://books.google.com/books?id=oC4zG5aR4rwC&pg=PA20&dq=square+rule+scribe+rule+Northern+new+england&sig=FM4_r0vWe9l_PmFJolK4kKTxkXg#PPA20,M1

Tim --

Perhaps have seen this or own a copy, there's a short section on plank houses on the following page.

Hi Don; You're right,, it is hard to find an empty barn. Thanks for looking into doing aa tour.

As a carpenter who likes old buildings I would like to point out that many old buildings are better built than modern buildings.Just because it is old does not mean it is "structurally compromised". Also, bouncy does not mean weak. You are correct to be cautious going into rarely used barns. I often start at the basement and work my way up so I can see the condition of the floors before walking on them.

Thanks again;
Jim

Don, I would encourage a barn tour, 20 sounds like a lot, but isn't, (there was two bus loads at the last TTRAG) and who knows how many would show, maybe not even ten. It's great to have a group together to hash things over and make new discoveries.

Will, I wanted to read more but the second page left me hanging in the air at the end. Here is another Plank House question. When plastering the inside wall was the wall strapped first? This would allow the plaster "key" to work. Where, if the lath is just nailed to the planks how/where is the key? Gosh its late. Tim

Tim/Jim:

I know these buildings are strong still. But I'd hate to collapse anything!!! Who knows what kind of liability issues the owners' would face if someone got hurt.

Anyway, we will likely do a tour. And the folks who have been active in this thread will be invited first. But 20 is still too many. Like I said before, if the interest is there, we can do 2 visits of 10 or less.

Please understand, it's unique what I've been able to do in the community where these barns are, and I want to keep the owners' good faith... I just finished a six month newspaper series on old barns in this area. 20 were surveyed. The president of the local historical society told me it's no small feat that I've been able to gain the trust of these folks and have them open up their homes/barns for public view on the printed page.

Toward that end, I need to respect their privacy and not descend on them w/ a group (much less a bus) of strangers. No offense, but you guys are strangers. One of these 2 barn owners is particularly private. Word spreads fast in a small New England town and I need to protect the unique relationship I've built with these folks. Otherwise, I'll burn bridges w/ future barn folks... (I'm trying to put a book together).

I'll proceed gingerly in my request for a group visit...

I know how you guys must feel...chomping at the bit to see these unique barns. And I think it will happen. Let's just take it slow..

Who knows, with time, maybe we can visit all 5 of these CG barns. Perhaps if I broach the issue w/ the owners that their barn is part of a regional tour of "CG" barns they may feel less under the microscope... and they might not want to get left out of the survey... a bit of reverse psychology maybe???

hhmmmmnn...

Don, Have you ever seen a horse chomping at the bit? Sometimes its because they are bored and want to get back to work, or even thinking, horses actually think and when they do they start to chew on nothing, grind, grind. It's actually something to be up close to a horse when they are doing this. Any way, Maybe we are like the horse and are happily waiting and just passing the time. I am sure you know these folks and have a sense of their mindset and that last line sounds like it will work. Tim