At the urging of others, (who are completley right) here's a topic where we can share ideas about some survey lists.

Here's my barn list... something I developed after visiting/documenting 20 barns this past winter.

My goal is to keep it to a single sheet (double-sided), which is really tough to do. But a single page makes it practical to take to a site. I have a WORD version of this in "landscape" format that fits nicely on 8.5 X 11 paper.

This is strictly a "field sheet." And could possiblty become part of an online version at some point.

Again, this is a barn list geared toward New England buildings. Another seperate list would probably work better for homes.

What are some suggestions / additions?





Barn Survey Sheet

Location: _____________________________________Date:__________________

General

Age: _____________________________
Size: _____________________________
Attached to house? Y / N
Type (threshing, cattle, chicken, other): ________________
Main entry location (gable, eave, N, S, E, or West entrance)
Roof style and pitch: _______________________________
Axis of ridgeline (N/S, E/W, other)
Number of stalls / Haymows: ________________________
Number of floors: _____________

General Frame Details

Square or Scribe rule (circle)
Sawn or hewn timber
• Sawn: describe marks: __________
• Hewn: Adzed or rough
Size of timbers: ________________________
Number of bents: _______________________
Bent spacing: __________________________
Number of bays: _____(symm., asymmetrical)
Width of bays: _________________________
Pegging details / species, etc.: ___________
____________________________________________
____________________________________________
Marriage mark details: _____________________
____________________________________________
____________________________________________


Foundation

Type: split granite, common stone, other: ____________________________________

Dry or mortared ?
Basement? Y / N
Full or open on any particular side(s)
(N, S, E, W)
Sill size: _______Continuous or scarfed?
Number / spacing of columns: __________ Type: _______________________________
Joist size and spacing: ___________________
Plank size: ____________________________

Walls

Post type: _____________________________
Girts or scantlings
Spacing and size of above: _______________
Plates: continuous / interrupted / scarfed / absent (CG)
Horizontal or vertical boarding
Describe sawmarks on boarding / scantlings: _______________________
Thickness of boarding: __________________
Attachment method / style of nail: _____________________________________
Siding? Y / N, type: _____________________________________
Location of, number of windows / doors:
_____________________________________
Number of panes / style of sash (nine-over-six pane, etc.):
_____________________________________


Roof

Purlin or common rafter system
Truss type:____________________________
Size and spacing of purlins:_______________
Size and spacing of rafters:________________
Ridge beam / board? Y / N
Rafter tails bear on plates or crossties
Continuous or scarfed crossties
Vertical / Horizontal boarding
Thickness of boarding:___________________
Sawmarks on boarding:__________________
Roofing details:________________________
_____________________________________

Restorations/Additions:
_____________________________________________
_____________________________________________
_____________________________________________

Notes: _______________________________________
______________________________________________
______________________________________________
______________________________________________
______________________________________________

Sketches / Misc. info:

Hi Don,

It would be important to collect information in a way that will allow you to analyse the findings and then draw comparisons between the different buildings in a consistent way.

I have found a typical vernacular buildings research form that I will send to you by private email.

Regards

Ken Hume

Ken, if you're willing, and able, to share this form, I'll see to it that it is available to members of this forum.

For the good of the order, etc.

Hi Joel,

There is the small matter of copyright to respect.

I will in the first instance send this to Don and yourself and then you can both use this as a check list to compare with your own form, identifying and extracting those items of information that you might consider have been ommitted from Don's base form for inclusion in same. This way we will respect copyright.

I am not trying to be awkward.

Regards

Ken Hume

COMPLETELY understood.

Ken,

Thanks for sending the PDF of the DBRG form. Like the TTRAG form, it is another sample to build on. Wouldn't it be nice to put a pdf in a posting?

I must say it is a bit "foreign" for an American like me There are terms I've never heard such as wealden and jettying in regards to framing. And it's generally more of an historical overview for a building... kind of vague. Not really technical. I think we need a form with specifics. For example there is nowhere to list bent spacing, or what type of wall plate (continuous, scarfed, absent, etc).

Anyway, like you said, we need a form to compare buildings. The one I have attempted can be used in this manner. Perhaps a more specific categorization is needed???

I like the TTRAG "Short survey list"
http://www.tfguild.org/ttrag/ttragsurvey.html
in that it's a good general overview, but again it isn't quite specific enough. There is no section for bent spacing or wall plate detail, or even rafter spacing. There is no sawmark section either. The "TTRAG Historic Wooden Structure Archives
Survey Checklist"
http://www.tfguild.org/ttrag/surveychecklist.html
is getting better. I very much like the joinery section w/ questions like "Which side of interior framing is the reference face - east, west, north, south? (Braces are often flush with reference face)," but the format is a bit restrictive w/ the checkboxes. I'd need additional paper to describe the questions in the checkboxes.

In short, I'm trying to build on Tim Beal's excellent request to have a form one can take to a building for documentation.

There must be some TTRAG folks here with there own opinions and questions. Maybe even share their own list that they've come up with.

Hi Don,

Please check out my email just sent to you.

Regarding dimensions - these would be duly recorded on the recording drawings and not on the checklist.

Regarding foreign terminolgy - you are now beginning to develop an understanding about "what you don't know" and that is one of the marvels of the timber framing journey. Try substituting overhang for jetty.

There are certainly plenty of jettied (overhung) buildings in MASS. e.g. The Appleton - Taylor - Mansfield House in Saugus, Mass., Converse House, Woburn, Mass. (now demolished), Stanley - Lake House, Topsfield, Mass, The White - Ellery House, Gloucester, Mass., - all as neatly documented and illustrated in The Framed Houses of Masachusetts Bay 1625-1725 by Abbott Lowell Cummings. This book is essential reading for any New England timber framing aficionado. Re your unfamiliarity with the term Wealden - this now begs the question - why then are there no Wealden form timber frame houses in New England since these are part jettied.

Have you checked the new TF Wiki glossary of terms regarding the definition of these words. Jetty is included but Wealden is missing. I will now have a go at adding a definition of Wealden to the glossary.

Regards

Ken Hume

Ken

Thanks for adding Wealden to the glossary. What an obscurity. Even one of this Guild's own directors hadn't a clue. You are a source for us, Sir.

Now, this is getting toward the "off topic" realm, but I can only speculate as to your question why we don't see any wealden in New England homes. Could it be just too much like England if we had done so? Colonists didn't much care for the "Mother country." Maybe, too, the early builders just really hated to chop up those long timbers (wall plates)...

Didn't the whole "jettying" concept come from a particular need anyway? I think I read that the overhangs became necessary for pedestrians to walk safely down side walks. Back before modern sanitation systems, sewage and all manner of things were routinely tossed out one's second story window to the street below. Those jettys allowed the "tosser" to miss the passersby, who walked safely underneath.

Curious, but how far does the average jetty overhang there in England. Enough for a person to walk under?

At TTRAG "08" we all got to tour a number of forebay barns. The over hangs were around 7'-8'. Plenty of room to walk from door to door while doing the chores, and stay out of the weather.

Don, I have recently been studying the early colonist. It is my understanding that the revolution was a difficult decision for them. They loved the mother country and struggled with the conflict. There were a fair number of loyalist who believed the war was wrong. They actually mimicked their home land(tea time). After the war the people so wanted a leader, Washington, some pushed to have him King. But he wouldn't have it.

I like the real estate reason for having a jetty. You may only have a few square feet of land and can spit on the neighbors, but look at all the space above the street, free for the taking. Just extend the building out into the street at a upper level. You have now gained some room with out annoying the neighbors. So, land was so huge here there was no need of jettys. In stead move the house back from the road and plant a tree or two or even a lilac bush. As for the neighbor, he was not even in sight.

Also Don have you had a chance to add some parts of Ken's list to yours?

Have I mentioned the house here in town which is coming down. 1860, parsons house next to a church. I think it is a transition building. Mortice and tenons, braces, top plates, common rafters spiked on and I think balloon framed as well full first to second floor stud. The plaster is just now coming off. No rot anywhere, making room for a parking lot for the church. I have taken pictures and am trying to get some measurements and fine details. With barns we see the structure, but the house is covered until it comes apart.

Don, your list pertains mostly to barns. I will have to go back to the TTRAG surveys and see if they are some what universal. Tim

Well, I can't edit, I guess that hasn't been fixed yet, which is fine I don't edit much any way. The short form will work fine. It has a check off box for what type of building.....house. Tim