Hi,

I have been looking at chain mortisers and I am astounded by the price of them. There doesn't really seem to be that much to them when you get right down to it. Compared to other wood working tools that are more common and have a comparable complexity, they are about five times the price that they should be. Even the replacement chains are a real rip off at around $700-$800. I have noticed that the other tools for timber framing do not reflect reality when compared to other more ubiquitous wood working tools of similar quality and complexity.

Are the prices simply a refection of supply and demand? Do they cost more because there is such a small market segment for them?

Does anyone know where you can buy timber framing tools at prices that reflect something within reason?

I am planning a one off project so I don't really need the power tools but they would be nice to have to improve productivity none the less. I can understand the prices of hand made tools like Barr chisels etc., but something like a chain mortiser I would expect to pay about $800 for, and a drill guide that they want $800 for really has nothing to it and should cost about $150. Maybe I am looking in the wrong places.

Thanks,
Steve.

Check out the Makita chain mortiser. If you're looking at imported European made tools, there's a big price gap. Check out the large saws, for example. The Makita chain mortiser may seem expensive too, but they don't have a huge volume with such a specialized tool. Chain for the Makita runs about half of what you were quoting. CB.

It's all relative. They sell far fewer than "other more ubiquitous wood working tools of similar quality and complexity". That is one factor. Actual cost is another. Sometimes you'd be surprised when you do an actual costing of the parts list. Each casting is low volume...
Consider also the cost to have a frame build for you versus building one yourself. In those terms, even buying the tools you come out ahead doing it your self. It's all relative. Average the tool cost over the whole life and usefulness of the tool. It may not seem so much in those terms. Looking at the cost versus doing only 1 frame, sure it seems more costly. It's all relative.

Ok thanks guys. I will check out the Makita.

I know I would still be ahead building the frame myself so it justifies buying the tool, but it still rubs me the wrong way to spend that much money on something that is fairly basic as far as wood power tools are concerned.

I wouldn't mind paying it as much if I new that the mark-up that the retailer was getting was in line with other more common wood power tools. Maybe it is and it's just a volume thing so the retailer is paying more from the manufacturer as well. Just not so sure since there is an association between timber framing and those that can afford to have one built are generally quite well off to say the least and so the expectation is that the cost of tools will just end up being paid by the end customer who has deep pockets. Of course this theory might be all a bunch of nonesense, just postulating. Don't like being bent over is all. I'll have a look at the Makita and see if it's in my range of reasonable or I can just stick with chisels and drills.

Thanks,
Steve.

There's also a robust market for used makita chain mortisers. If you use it for only one project, you'll easily be able to sell it for 1/2 to 2/3 of what you paid for it.

Timberwolf tools offers a price match on the makita. Find it lower, and they'll match the price.

http://www.timberwolftools.com/tools/makita/M-7104L.html

The alternative to a chain mortiser is to buy a old reconditioned boring machine.
Or to consider that after you have completed your project you sell any or all of these tools, to recover your investment.
I know that some people buy a chain mortiser for $1300 and then cut their one and only frame, and then sell their chain mortiser for $1000 or so. And consider the $300 they lost as "rent" for the machine for the one or two years they work on their project.
Just somethings to consider...

Good point guys. I bought a used makita chain morticer for $1000 which also included a new chain. That was 6 months ago and they were new for $1305 plus shipping at the time. If I wanted to sell after one project, I'd probably not lose more than $300 if that, but I probably will keep it awhile for more than one project.

That's a good idea to buy one and then sell it when I'm done. I am a bit worried about being able to unload it though since it's not a very popular item for most people.

Where do you guys look to buy used ones?

Where would I buy an old reconditioned boring machine? I assume you mean one that has a frame to keep it square to the work and you crank it by hand??

As far as price matching, they would have to match it plus 5 or 10%. The company that has the lowest price wins in my book, I would never go back to another place and give them my business for the same price since it's just saying to them that they can try and rip me off until I take them to task on it and then they will give me the real price. Unless it's a better unit price matched. Just my opinion. I will check out Timberwolf and see what they have.

Thanks for all your input.

Steve.

Right here for both reselling your used mortiser, or for buying a boring machine (Jim Rogers typically has a large selection). CB.

pringles, Jim Rogers keeps an updated list in this section of the forum. You can see the last one here.

He had about 8 of them with him last week at Heartwood School. The Millers Falls are sweet, and top of the line, and he also has several wooden framed ones.

I prefer a boring machine over a hand drill, but that's just me.


Dave

I bought a old boring M/C off Ebay($60). I was broken(wood was all cracked), so I made a new one out of maple, and used the cast parts from the old one. It might be a little slower, but it does the job.

pringles, I as well use a number of boring machines for joinery. On my last frame had the chance to see a chain morticer in action. They are simply faster. I found them heavy and my back had issues after extended use. I fixed that some what with a block to stand on. I like the accuracy of the hand crank machine, that is achieved with cleanup by hand tools. I am looking forward to how you make your decision and what your choice will be.

My brother made a hand crank boring machine from scratch, he had $100 in parts tied up in it, no labor number. Tim

Yes, selling a Makita chain morticer is no problem these days. You can sell it on ebay, on post in the tool section here that you have one for sale. They tend to sell quickly if priced fairly. Like I didn't have a problem buying mine for $1000 with a new chain. It was described as excellent condition that had been used for one or two projects. The new chain was probably worth $300 new. Plus the old chain may be resharpened I think. I wouldn't have paid any more (baseline for a new one with 1 chain is $1305 plus shipping). I wouldn't spend that much on a used one that wasn't cared for well, is rusty, or has been through many many projects. A well used one may get down in the $500-$600 range I'm thinking...I've seen one with a broken casting. If there were repaired, Probably price it in that lower range. It has to be properly welded though by a pro who knows how to do that.

Hey Pringles, take a deep breath.

Try using the various tools and methods of drilling, chopping, cutting mortices. See what works best for your muscles, your budget, your time, your pleasure, and even your philosopy of timber framing (which is discussed w much enthusiasm on another thread somewhere here).

You're an engineer so I bet you have an idea what things cost to design, build, distribute, warranty, inventory parts for etc. Most of us buyers and users, and sellers of used tools in the TFG are pretty savvy and honest, and are willing and enthusiastic to help others with advice and with fair dealings. The distibutors of new TF tools that we all buy from have good reputations.
Anybody who's cutthroat or dishonest would be exposed pretty quickly and would be discredited and gone. I think on Ebay you should be much more wary.
I had a customer here in NY who told me her cousin in Missouri had an addition put on her house for $30,000, so she thought that's what her budget for her project should be. Illogical with beginning manipulative negotiations......
Attend a Guild function, workshop or rendezvous - try some tools out and have fun learning w other enthusiasts. Also look for a course or class being given by someone near you. Don't be afraid to open up your check book, it'll be money well spent if you are diligent and positive.
Steve

Everyone,

Thanks for all your responses and opinions. You have helped me out a lot.

Steve.

I posted in this Tool Forum a Makita Chain Mortiser 4 sale. It is in excellent working condition, a tight machine, ready to do lots of accurate and fast work.
I'm taking pictures tomorrow (Tues) if you're interested. I'll try to post pics, or I can email them.
Have you started cutting your frame yet?
Steve

No I haven't started any work yet, I am just researching my options right now. I haven't totally decided on the design yet or the type of wood I will use. I am just poking around looking at what tools I may buy when the time comes.

Thanks,
Steve.