Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: Square rule or scribble? [Re: Ken Hume] #15945 06/19/08 03:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 959
K
Ken Hume Offline
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 959
Edit function is still out.


Looking back to see the way ahead !
Re: Square rule or scribble? [Re: Ken Hume] #15947 06/19/08 10:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 570
OurBarns1 Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 570
completed.

thanks Ken.


Don Perkins
Member, TFG


to know the trees...


Re: Square rule or scribble? [Re: OurBarns1] #16232 07/18/08 12:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,882
T
TIMBEAL Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,882
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14709813@N02/2506540425/

This is the same link just on a different picture which has to do with this thread from the start. Lets see how it goes. Tim

Re: Square rule or scribe rule? [Re: TIMBEAL] #16420 08/05/08 01:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,882
T
TIMBEAL Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,882
[img]http://[IMG]http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q393/timber500/100_1465.jpg[/img][/img]

Here is a photo of another frame with no visible marriage marks, or at least I didn't think so. I was reviewing some photos I shot today and noticed the faint red marks on the brace and cross beam. The marks show up via the camera, with the eye they aren't as visible, most likely the lighting is poor. The red is just under the electrical wire it looks like a 17, the white marking is from the swallows. Red on the tie is harder to see.

When did red grease pencils show up in layout? I think Will T. mentioned lead pencils were around just before the Revolution. Tim


Re: Square rule or scribe rule? [Re: TIMBEAL] #16457 08/07/08 09:59 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 447
Will Truax Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 447

I've tried to find information on the red grease pencil markings, and have had no luck. I'm seeing it, interestingly coupled with chiseled numbers, on the Parsonage where I'm working now, and it dates to 1821.

My mention of pencils was about the domestic production of them beginning in 1812, in response to the market being cut off by the war and the Blockade.


"We build too many walls and not enough bridges" - Isaac Newton

http://bridgewright.wordpress.com/

Re: Square rule or scribe rule? [Re: Will Truax] #16458 08/07/08 10:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,882
T
TIMBEAL Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,882
The picture isn't big enough to see the red marking it is there.

1812, got it. It has gone through my mind, when I see two types of marking I'm thinking the building was moved and the red marking was for the the second or more disassembly. I also when building new use both marker and chiseled numbers.

I also stopped at a remodel to look at an old cape yesterday and viewed an exposed kitchen ell. It was mucked together with somewhat odd parts, one posts, square ruled, with chisel marks in the brace housing, the #2 (II). The brace was missing and the top plate had no brace pocket to match. Tim

Re: Square rule or scribe rule? [Re: TIMBEAL] #16484 08/09/08 10:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 332
H
Housewright Offline
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 332
Hi Will;

Can you tell if the chisle marks and crayon marks both make sense? My first thought was the same as Tim's, that the building may have been disassembled and moved or built of reused timbers.

Jim


The closer you look the more you see.
"Heavy timber framing is not a lost art" Fred Hodgson, 1909
Re: Square rule or scribe rule? [Re: Housewright] #16497 08/10/08 12:56 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 447
Will Truax Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 447

Jim --

In this instance, besides knowing the history of the house, and with it being obvious that there is also no reused timber in its frame…

The chisel and crayon marks do make sense with one another, and share the same numbers – The chisel was used to mark the 1st fl studs and the sill at each stud, crayon was used to mark the 2nd fl studs and the girts at each stud.

I had just never seen this logical mixed use before.

Funny thing is this is only a tall posted cape, the 2nd fl studs are all short, no confusing them with the ones below them, chisel would’ve served, even without flags. The marking system this framing crew used was likely one they developed for full two story frames, and just ran with out of force of habit.

Finding fun in the details


"We build too many walls and not enough bridges" - Isaac Newton

http://bridgewright.wordpress.com/

Re: Square rule or scribe rule? [Re: Will Truax] #16516 08/11/08 10:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 332
H
Housewright Offline
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 332
Will;
You seem to have found an early use of "lumber crayon". I too looked for information about them without much sucess. I did learn that the word crayon is very vague and means any stick used to write or mark. Often crayons were chalk or chalk mixed with a binder such as wax, grease, or oil. They have been in use for hundreds of years, Leonardo Da Vinci reffered to using crayon. I would be interested to find documentation on when they came into common use.

Raddle, as discussed in the TFWiki, is a red oxide used to mark sheep, snap lines and can be made into a crayon for marking. A synonym of raddle in this form is keel. Marking something was "keeling".

The compound words lumber-crayon and grease-pencil are absent from the Oxford English Dictionary and most others. Here is another research opportunity!

Thanks for sharing.

Jim


The closer you look the more you see.
"Heavy timber framing is not a lost art" Fred Hodgson, 1909
Re: Square rule or scribe rule? [Re: TIMBEAL] #17047 10/10/08 10:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,882
T
TIMBEAL Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,882
I came across a second barn with similar housings as the first barn mentioned on this topic. The difference is that this one is close to home, and it is all sawn materiel. The top plate brace housings are scooped out with an adze or axe,( first photo), while the post joints are house with bevels. And it is odd that it appears to be marked from the center bay, the braces are flush with the inside center of the building (second photo). This building is making my case that some buildings which first appear to be scribed could be square ruled. I am thinking they were experimenting with square rule.

The building is made up of Hemlock and a nice example with the dark and light shades in the grain, seen in the photos. Tim [img]http://[IMG]http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q393/timber500/100_2022.jpg[/img][/img]
[img]http://[IMG]http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q393/timber500/100_2024.jpg[/img][/img]

Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Jim Rogers, mdfinc 

Newest Members
HFT, Wrongthinker, kaymaxi, RLTJohn, fendrishi
5134 Registered Users
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3
(Release build 20190728)
PHP: 5.4.45 Page Time: 0.032s Queries: 17 (0.009s) Memory: 3.2181 MB (Peak: 3.3984 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-03-29 00:20:54 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS