Hi everyone:

This is alittle off my usual topic, but I am helping install an expensive bannister in a new home which has wrought iron spindles that need to be installed down the stairway.

The steps are enclosed so the spindles and the railing will sit upon the wall which decends along side the stairs.

My question which I am putting out to you is this:

I have to bore percisely on an angle a series of 5 eights inch holes to accept the bottoms of the square spindles. These holes will be on top of an ash board and centred, with nosings on both edges.

What kind of jig would be acceptable for this job--please describe I would really appreciate it.

NH

I would suggest the following approach:

-prepare a block that is the same width as the ash board. The block should be a little shorter in length than your drill bit. The drill bit that would likely work best here is a lipped brad point.

- mark the centerlines of all faces of the block

-use a drill press, clamp the block in place so it doesn't move, and be sure the table of the press is exactly perpendicular to the drill spindle. Drill a hole right through the block. I would say it would be best to orient the hole parallel to the grain of the block (i.e., the drill enters the end grain).

-after the hole is through, check that it emerged dead center. If not, try again, but fussier

-if the hole is where it should be, slice the block across the grain at the same angle the stair takes. This cut needs to be accurate and leave the cut surface flat across.

-attach a couple of flanking pieces to the block, cut to the same angle as the block, which will fit to the sides of the ash board nosing. These serve to auto-locate the block (which is used to guide the drill) on the ash piece. You will need to mark the block in a manner so as to allow it to reference accurately to the location of each hole. Sighting down the hole in the guide block will likely be not accurate enough. Probably making the flanking pieces in a 'U' shape would allow the marking line of the side of the guide block to be referenced against a line marking the center of the hole on the ash piece (a line that is marked right across the width of the ash piece, and thus visible from the side when the jig is placed atop it).

-you will need to devise a way to keep the block exactly fixed in place (so as not to slide up or down or to lift off the surface) while drilling the hole into the ash piece. That means the jig needs to be clamp-able or screw-fixed somehow. If using screws, of course they should not mar any visible finished surface. likely, something could be configured with the flanking pieces of wood on the sides of guide block

-when you drill you will have to go slowly and carefully at first as the edge of the drill bit is contacting the ash surface on the uphill side only and this creates forces on the bit that will want to push it off line. It may be worth using a Forstener for the first 1/8" of drilling depth or so, and then switching back to the brad point. It may pay to apply removable masking tape to the finished surface. before drilling to limit any possible tear-out. Don't drill all the way with the Forstener, unless the depth of hole is quite shallow, as Forsteners are designed to be used within the confines of a drill press and can easily wander laterally when used in a portable electric drill.

Jeez, I guess a picture would be worth a thousand words here eh?

I totally agree with you in regards to the square holes (to resist twist, easy to chop by hand, etc), however it would seem he wanted a jig to do round holes for a cast iron component, so I assumed the 'tenon' on the casting was round as well. Need some clarification on that i guess.

If you cannot use clamps, I would suggest some double-stick carpet tape to hold the jig Chris described... and make the jig so that you could stand or kneel on it to assist in "clamping." (Use new pieces of tape for each hole drilled).

Hi everyone:

Thanks for the feed back I certainly appreciate it, you are never too old to learn new tricks!!

I phoned Stair World who supplied the stair parts a while ago in regards to just what kind of hole is acceptable to secure the bottoms of the square spindles (which are 1/2 " by the way), a technician there told me that they usually just use a 5\8 " bit for this purpose.

The wrought iron spindles are just square ended, and they (Stair World) supply a small square casting that slides down the spindle and covers up the round hole and finishes things off, it seems to work well I must say.

A problem did arise though when I began to look at the railing coming down the incline and these square castings, it seems that they didn't have enough play to handle the slope of the wall. To fix that problem they supplied alternate castings that do have the right slope etc.

These castings by the way just sit on top of the wood and are not fastened in any way.

I can see that drilling the holes is going to be fun when that part of the installation comes to bear.

I don't have any pictures now but I may try to get some and post on site because I can see that there seems to be some interest out there in this type of installation.

The staris is fairly steep, actually steeper than it should be, it seems that the architect forgot about the doorway at the bottom of the stairs, which goes up into a loft area, and the run and rise is almost the same 7.5" rise and 8" run or tread.

It makes for a very narrow tread, and it is impossible to squeeze any more width out.

This in turn makes for a very steep stairs, and it is what I am dealing with right now.

If it hadn't been for the doorway you could have come down to a landing and then on down into the livingroom and could have had lovely wide steps a real pity in my books.

Right now I am working on the bannister up in the loft area, and am slowly working over to the top of the stairs, and the sweep down.

I have done alot of things in my life but once in a while you come up against a special project and this seems to be it for me. I have a few stand alone posts at the end of sections of railing which of course had to be plumb, and very securely attached to the floor. I used 1" hardwood dowling--4" in the floor and 4" up in the post along with (1) 3\8 inch wood railing anchor. This seemed to work well for me, it was impossible to bolt from underneath because of the finished ceilings below maybe you might like to comment on my securing of the posts or maybe your experiences

Any further advice or comments would be appreciated.

NH

8" Tread! Small feet. NH, are you dealing with not enough run for your rise? Does the stair take a turn or is it straight?

NH,

To secure newel posts to a finished floor or tread, we use "rail bolts" which are usually 3/8" or 1/2" fasteners with one half of the length having lag screw threads and the other half of the length having machine threads to take a nut.

We use either 2 or 4 of them depending on the size of the newel. You have to bore into the side of the newel to access the top of the rail bolt and put the nut on. Sometimes you have to angle the rail bolts as you install them to make sure you get into a joist or other framing member. You can then bend the part that sticks out of the floor to be plumb.

I haven't found any other way to get newels installed on a finished floor stiff enough.

Gabel

NH,

I was thinking, if there is room on the treads, a plunge router may be a better way to "drill" those 5/8" holes. Perhaps with a coresponding angle block / wedge to the degree you need fastened to the router base...wide / long enough to allow for the attachment of the alignment pieces Chris discussed... then with some double-stick tape and / or clamps to hold said jig you're off and running.

A plunge router is more stable than a hand drill and has a built in depth-stop, etc.

But actually, what about a bit brace. You can go nice and slow this way and forget about the jig stuff....maybe cut an oversized piece of scrap at the appropriate angle to use next to the bit to guide things. Some tape on the bit for depth, etc.

Might be one of those tasks where the old fashiond way is better--if there really isn't room for a jig and clamps.

Good luck w/ the newel

I originally wrote a section in my post considering the use of the router to do the same thing, as it would possibly lead to quite clan holes. I deleted that consideration however from the post, despite my fondness for the router, due to some of these issues:

-if the slope of the stairwell is at all steep, then plunge depth is greatly limited by the router base running into the uphill side of the cap. Depends upon the router model and what sort of base it has (i.e., Dewalt and Festool routers have a rectangular base that would allow the most flexibility in this regard)

-limited selection of 0.625" router bits that are long enough and configured to plunge well.

Thinking about this jigging problem a little further, I wonder if the cap could be removed and the ballustrade spindle holes done on a drill press with an angled table? That would allow for convenient use of the Forstner anyhow, and it would be easy enough to set up some sort of detent to allow for very regular hole spacing.

The low tech brace and bit would work well too!

Hi Mo and others

the stairs are a straight flight down and end up against a door opening.

The home builders were not of good caliber and eventho it is a very nice home there are many errors, this being one of them and i refer to the position of the stairway.

I am in the process of preparing the Ash cap for the sloping wall now and I am about 1 week away from doing the mortising for the sloping railing support spindles.

I sure appreciate all your feedback on installing the sloping mortises for the spindles, I do believe that I will just need to take it slow and steady, and judging from what you guys are saying maybe a modest jig that could direct the angle of a freehand drill and bit might be my best solution in this case.

Any other comments are welcome

NH