Hody!
My job is to design timber structures(floors, walls, roofs, ceilings)
I'm looking for a modeling(3D design) program meant for timber design.
I have found many of them. But then i got an idea. Are there any timber structure modeling(designing) programs which work inside AutoCAD and which is ment for timber structure design.
Thanks,
M

This is a broad question with a wide array of answers.

I am a few years out of the loop, but have used excellent products that have only gotten better with time from a variety of vendors, most of whom are represented at TFG events and in TFG publications.

I look forward to following this discussion.

I use custom software that I have developed over the years in AutoCAD, I believe HSB has a program that runs in AutoCAD and I think there may be one or two more. TimberCAD was developed years ago by Ed Levin and myself and I think is still available as a free download here on the guild site. TimberCAD is not for the faint of heart, but if you don't mind "getting under the hood" its a great bang for your buck.

I don't know if you have found Cadwork. I have just been introduced to it as a trial running. I have only used AutoCad for 2d dwgs and have experimented with the 3d some. sketchup is very economical.

Cadwork is valuable and expensive. You constantly switch between planes in a 3d model to work on the frame. You can work in x planes, y planes, z planes, planes square to a roof surface, planes square to an edge, etc. Makes working with hips and valleys much easier than other programs I have used. One extremely valuable tool of this program is that it can optimize a parts list for ordering timber. You set the parameters (such as endcuts of length and buffer thickness between pieces for your sawblade). Even tells you how much waste percentage you will have. I could see it being useful in a production shop. It produces stick drawings and even communicates with the dreaded machine.

In my opinion it is all based on the structures that you are designing and who you have building them. In some framework all a competent carpenter would need is span,length, eave height, and pitch. This approach could be communicated on a napkin.

Have to concur with Mo that sketchup seems very useable and popular, I have never used it. Personally I have stuck with AutoCAD due to the strength of the Architectural and Structural drawings and being able to show my customers 3D models of their house with timber frame. Straight AutoCad of course allows you to work in both 3D and 2D, by the use of any geomtrically possible surfaces, I especially like the ability to add and subract solids (boolean operations), its helpful also to communcate shop drawings by showing the piece in phases, for instance before cutting the valley in the top of a valley beam. You would have to use an add on such as TimberCAD or perhaps there is something else out there, to generate a parts list.

This HsbCAD seems to be a good tool for design. I was wondering if anybody has examples what can it do?
Thanks!

I've used HSB, Dietrichs, attempted to play with the homegrown TimberCAD thing, and SketchUP.

I currently use HSB / AutoCAD and SketchUp.

HSB runs inside of AutoCAD. Current version is running in AutoCAD Architecture 2009. I've been using it in Architectural Desktop 2004 up until last month. HSB offers several modules depending on what you are doing with it - panels, timbers, CNC, FEA export, etc. Its a powerful package with a big $$ (similar to CadWorks, Dietrich's, etc).

Dietrich's is another option - I used this briefly in 2006 - but I'm so handicapped by AutoCAD thinking that I had decided to stick with what I know... Dietrich's is stand alone.

I've not used CadWorks but have seen it deployed @ several shops. Powerful looking software - again from what I know a stand along package.


SketchUp is a great program. If you buy SketchUp Pro 7 you can develop your own parametric objects - both timbers and joints as well as stairs, windows, whatever - and you can assign variables (whatever you want) to these objects for list export (price a joint or a timber and have it export with sizes / etc. to a list). The program also allows you to export to DWG and other formats - and is simply the best 'presentation' package I've used - I'll often export my HSB / AutoCAD work to SketchUp for fly throughs, JPGs, etc. It is great for walking clients through a frame in realtime. I use it with a digi projector @ meetings - I'll have HSB and SkethUp open and work the two as a charrette.

If you get into SketchUp be sure to find Clark's (daiku? on the forum) Rubies - which expand the functionality of the software to create shop drawings of individual parts. I'm currently building and testing a library with the Pro 7 features (specifically parametric joints that you can change by pull down menu as opposed to drawing 10 different tenon styles, for example) with the Rubies. For about $500 you can have a very powerful timber presentation / modeling program (that is also good for furniture, house, etc. design). Add in a copy of AutoCAD LT and you'd have a powerful package on a budget for developing timber work in CAD.


But - there is no beating the functionality of one of the premier timber design applications - HSB, CadWorks, or Dietrichs. Very powerful... if you can afford it or do the type of work where the software blends into not only the 'design' phase - but also estimating, presentation, coordination, and manufacturing.

And this assumes you are on a PC.
-Mike

I'm not sure why the machine is 'dreaded'. Its just another tool, albeit a big, complicated, and expensive one. Its use really should define if it should be dreaded or not. If it dumbs down or is used to limit the creativity of a company or craftsman... then yes, I agree it should be dreaded. If it expands what a timber framer can do... then is it bad?

If you dread the machine... why draw on a computer? Wouldn't a pencil and paper suffice? Would a wire guided parallel ruler on a drafting board be too much technology? Mechanical pencil?

Did the sawmill take the soul out of timber work when it gave folks options for hewing? Or just the back breaking labor?

Does a table saw, joiner, and planer take away from a furniture maker?

I'm using ACAD 2008 will it work in this version?
Thanks
M

We built a machine that does endcuts, shoulders, mortises, and joist and rafter pockets in the 80's. It does the "heavy" work, hogging out pockets, flipping the timber to work on subsequent sides and so on. When it comes off the machine, we clean up the shouders and pockets, rout the corners, and finish plane and seal. Not only is it easier on the body, but the finished surfaces are treated by skilled labor while the heavy work is done by the machine. The greatest savings is that there is no layout, since our software provides all the locations for the joinery to the machine. Our efficiency is quite good, and the look and quality of our frames has only imrproved since our joiners are focused on their unique skills while the machine does the "dumb" work.