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#17620 - 01/05/09 01:42 AM boring machine timeline?
Bruce Chrustie Offline
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Registered: 09/08/03
Posts: 120
crazy

TFNorm came over for a beer last nite and we were discussing my neighbors house which would have been mid - late 1800.....

some hewn log, some stud framing and some timberframe. Expanded over time smile

There were some exposed girts and I was explaining to the owner some of the structure and what it did etc.

But with TFNorm we were pondering if the work would have been done with a T auger or boring machine?

Thoughts on when some of the earlier machines were made?

Bruce,

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#17622 - 01/05/09 11:53 AM Re: boring machine timeline? [Re: Bruce Chrustie]
TIMBEAL Offline
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Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 1882
Loc: Maine
Bruce, with the T-auger the hole depths may be irregular and not as smooth and clean. The holes of the machine will be true to square as well or I should saw consistently the same, they may all be out of square the same. This all bears on the ability to find a mistaken mortice, it does happen. This is providing the worker was using a machine with a depth stop and the bit was true, even then it would of been more consistent. This comes from my experience of using both and with the ease of the machine I find it much easier to bore all the holes. The T is slower and all one needs is to cut the end holes and maybe one in the center. I also see mortices with fewer holes to make up the mortice, suggesting a T-auger. The T-auger with the feed screw was developed around 1798. If the bore hole doesn't have a feed screw evident at least the tool used was pre 1800. Machines were developed in the later half of the 1800, is my understanding. A lot happened and quickly from the start of this country, and we are not done.

Just because a certain tool dating to a certain time is used doesn't pin point the construction date, there is overlap. I am still using a boring machine in the time of Hundiggers and chains. One needs to compile all the facts and then guess.

Tim

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#17625 - 01/05/09 06:15 PM Re: boring machine timeline? [Re: TIMBEAL]
Will Truax Offline
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Registered: 05/02/02
Posts: 447
Loc: Center Barnstead NH

All that Tim said about dating and overlap…

Can’t be sure when Boring Machines as we know them gained dominance, but I would guess they would have been a must have item, within just a few years of their availability.

I started doing patent searches a few years back, first through the Patent Office website, then made easier when Google started digitizing the world. Starting with bridge truss patents, a task greatly simplified with the publication of Kemp’s book a few years back.

At some point I started looking for boring machines, because I had bought a mystery machine in Ohio the summer I was part of the Malabar crew that is in pristine condition, appearing almost unused. Well it doesn’t just have that appearance, it is, it is so complicated that it simply never worked well enough to be put to use…

Like so many boring machines it has no makers mark. I found it and plenty of others you never heard of, and some other oddities in the looking – Here’s a sprinkling.

The earliest, of the as we know them, ass clamp, two-fisted herty gerty, pattern, I’ve come across dates to ’54 – There may well be earlier patents I didn’t find ~

http://www.google.com/patents?id=RINOAAAAEBAJ&dq=12078

But other varations were played at –

http://www.google.com/patents?id=t5pCAAAAEBAJ&dq=4251

http://www.google.com/patents?id=MCdCAAAAEBAJ&dq=3776

Not for timberwork, but worth a look, the low number is puzzleing , the same man holds No’s 7 & 8 –

http://www.google.com/patents?id=lrA-AAAAEBAJ&dq=5+blanchard+mortising+machine

A curious twist on the theme -

http://www.google.com/patents?id=VHRtAAAAEBAJ&dq=33324

The overly complicated version that got me looking –

http://www.google.com/patents?id=j9xPAAAAEBAJ&dq=248508

Wooster had some competition in the square hole variations, including this oddity –

http://www.google.com/patents?id=DppPAAAAEBAJ&dq=99064&jtp=1

Versions on the theme continued to be patented right to the close of the century, and as we know they continued to be listed in catalogs up through the 1920’s –

http://www.google.com/patents?id=liFDAAAAEBAJ&dq=625008

I have a largish fleet I don’t use much, kinda fond of my electron driven chain and hollow chisel mortisers.

Chains go back into the 19th century , mostly stationary things for the sash & door industry – But here’s a portable model, how’d you like to pull mortise duty cranking this thing all day ?

http://www.google.com/patents?id=HZVmAAAAEBAJ&dq=1170120







_________________________
"We build too many walls and not enough bridges" - Isaac Newton

http://bridgewright.wordpress.com/


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#17637 - 01/07/09 11:46 PM Re: boring machine timeline? [Re: Will Truax]
Dave Shepard Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 718
Loc: Alford, MA
I was talking to Jack Sobon about this, and he said the first one was built somewhere in Mid Massachusetts. He has one that is identical to it, and thinks it may be one of the first ever. All of the metal parts, including the carriage, are hand forged. It has a leather strap that returns the carriage.
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#17639 - 01/08/09 12:42 AM Re: boring machine timeline? [Re: Dave Shepard]
Will Truax Offline
Member

Registered: 05/02/02
Posts: 447
Loc: Center Barnstead NH

Dave --

Thanks for piping in...

If you have a look at that 1854 patent, the holder is from north central Mass ! Strangely, but for it being a fixed machine, all the goodies are there ??

Forged does suggest prototype, there were foundries aplenty by the mid 19th.

Sounds like a must see machine.
_________________________
"We build too many walls and not enough bridges" - Isaac Newton

http://bridgewright.wordpress.com/


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#17644 - 01/08/09 07:40 AM Re: boring machine timeline? [Re: Will Truax]
Ken Hume Offline
Member

Registered: 03/22/02
Posts: 942
Hi Will,

I have for some time now been seeking a set of dimensioned drawings for a good boring machine from which to attempt producing a 3D model and so I downloaded the patent details of the Taft machine that you mention above. This machine appears to be quite sophisticated and therefore I have my doubts that this would have been one of the earliest boring machines and more likely a development of earlier prototype machines. The patent holder is clear about the novel features of this machine and therefore one would need to look at other aspects of the design to see what he did not claim under his patent to establish just what the existing level of technology of the day might have been.

Researching patents is a gem of an idea.

Regards

Ken Hume


Edited by Ken Hume (01/08/09 07:42 AM)
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#17647 - 01/08/09 06:03 PM Re: boring machine timeline? [Re: Ken Hume]
Jim Rogers Online   confused

Member

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1661
Loc: Georgetown, MA, USA
Ken:
We have several types and brands of boring machines here on hand.
I could give you some actual measurements from one if you need it....
Jim Rogers
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Whatever you do, have fun doing it!

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#17650 - 01/09/09 08:08 AM Re: boring machine timeline? [Re: Jim Rogers]
Ken Hume Offline
Member

Registered: 03/22/02
Posts: 942
Hi Jim,

Thanks for that kind offer. I was hoping to use the boring tool as a 3D linked mechanism when I was doing a course in 3D animation.

At the time I could not find fully dimensioned 2D detail drawings for a boring machine and so I switched ideas using a post mill instead, for which I had the sufficient data, and this allowed me to demonstrate rotating linkages, modes of operation and failure mechanisms.

I don't recall seeing dimensions on the Taft patent drawings and so a few key dimensions that relate specifically to this model or one of the others that Will has identified would be useful since all other dimensions could then be scaled from the patent bitmap drawings.

I seem to recall that sometime back one of the Guild members (Leon Buckwalter ?) who is engaged in education was going to have a go with his students at making a new boring machine and if sucessfull then offer these new tools to Guild members but I am unsure if there was ever a positive outcome to that initiative.

Regards

Ken Hume


Edited by Ken Hume (01/09/09 08:11 AM)
_________________________
Looking back to see the way ahead !

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#17651 - 01/09/09 02:29 PM Re: boring machine timeline? [Re: Ken Hume]
Jim Rogers Online   confused

Member

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1661
Loc: Georgetown, MA, USA
Ken:
Can you post the link to the Taft machine from above?
So I can look at it and see if it's the same as we have on-hand....

Jim Rogers
_________________________
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!

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#17652 - 01/09/09 10:39 PM Re: boring machine timeline? [Re: Jim Rogers]
Ken Hume Offline
Member

Registered: 03/22/02
Posts: 942
Hi Jim,

I have just emailed you direct a cleaned up *.pdf version of the Taft patent boring machine drawings.

Regards

Ken Hume
_________________________
Looking back to see the way ahead !

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